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2009-11-29
, 09:13
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#112
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I suggest that all new users attempt this before installing anything from extras-devel:
Go to your local McDonalds and order a burger. When it has just been placed on the grill and is still raw, demand that you be served it at once. You will be refused. Try your rant about the customer being right (in this case a paying customer) and it will get you nowhere. This is not because the spotty kid flipping burgers is elitist or superior (though he probably has a basic certificate in food hygiene). It's because there's a fairly high risk of food poisoning from eating raw burgers, and he doesn't want to lose his job when McDonalds are closed by the environmental health department. Your burger isn't ready yet.
There are rules and restrictions placed on us all the time which vary according to our capacity and qualifications. In one of the buildings I work in I hold a key to every room in the building except one. Not because the keyholders are superior or elitist, but because I lack the necessary skills to use what's in there safely. I can't buy arsenic, cyanide or more than a handful of paracetemol - is my pharmacist being elitist?
The developers here are, to put it mildly, extremely busy. This is a new device, and while some of them got a few weeks' march on it, they have spent that time bringing somewhere in the reason of 70 apps to a point where they are deemed entirely safe for everyone. That has been their focus, not writing FAQs, wikis, or holding the hand of people who have bricked their device foolishly. For those who've had problems through no fault of their own, the community have been here.
I hear so much impatience in the posts here. How long have you had the device? Less than a week? But the app you want must be available now, the wiki must be already written (by whom?) the FAQ must be full of pretty screen shots... most of the people who will do those things haven't even got their devices yet.
To the suggestion that the community must either provide End User Support or point people to somewhere that does - no the community is under no obligation to do either. It does what it does entirely from goodwill. You have a user manual from Nokia - the manuacturers consider that to be all the information you should ever need.
Rather than ranting that the app you want is still cooking, how about thanking the person who voluntarily in his/her own free time has started created it, and hopefully intends finishing it? How about volunteering, if you feel able, to be involved in the process - offer to test it! The developers are delighted to have good testers who can provide high quality feedback on the bugs in apps still in testing. Though be aware that the feedback process is highly technical.
Under all this I hear a profound sense of Entitlement. You have paid for the device, for a guarantee from Nokia, and a user manual. And that is what you have received. You have paid nothing to the community, and they owe you exactly nothing. You have no 'entitlement' to free apps before they are ready for publication: what if the dev intends to sell this when it's finished? Are you willing to pay for having it early?
Is it good to see people with technical knowlegde help out new End Users? Yes, of course it is. It is also good to see new End Users treat people who have technical knowledge with the respect due to that knowledge, especially when they're willing to follow the advice they're given even if it's not what they want to hear.
Last edited by RevdKathy; 2009-11-29 at 12:23.
Go to your local McDonalds and order a burger. When it has just been placed on the grill and is still raw, demand that you be served it at once. You will be refused. Try your rant about the customer being right (in this case a paying customer) and it will get you nowhere. This is not because the spotty kid flipping burgers is elitist or superior (though he probably has a basic certificate in food hygiene). It's because there's a fairly high risk of food poisoning from eating raw burgers, and he doesn't want to lose his job when McDonalds are closed by the environmental health department. Your burger isn't ready yet.
There are rules and restrictions placed on us all the time which vary according to our capacity and qualifications. In one of the buildings I work in I hold a key to every room in the building except one. Not because the keyholders are superior or elitist, but because I lack the necessary skills to use what's in there safely. I can't buy arsenic, cyanide or more than a handful of paracetemol - is my pharmacist being elitist?
The developers here are, to put it mildly, extremely busy. This is a new device, and while some of them got a few weeks' march on it, they have spent that time bringing somewhere in the reason of 70 apps to a point where they are deemed entirely safe for everyone. That has been their focus, not writing FAQs, wikis, or holding the hand of people who have bricked their device foolishly. For those who've had problems through no fault of their own, the community have been here.
I hear so much impatience in the posts here. How long have you had the device? Less than a week? But the app you want must be available now, the wiki must be already written (by whom?) the FAQ must be full of pretty screen shots... most of the people who will do those things haven't even got their devices yet.
To the suggestion that the community must either provide End User Support or point people to somewhere that does - no the community is under no obligation to do either. It does what it does entirely from goodwill. You have a user manual from Nokia - the manuacturers consider that to be all the information you should ever need.
Rather than ranting that the app you want is still cooking, how about thanking the person who voluntarily in his/her own free time has started created it, and hopefully intends finishing it? How about volunteering, if you feel able, to be involved in the process - offer to test it! The developers are delighted to have good testers who can provide high quality feedback on the bugs in apps still in testing. Though be aware that the feedback process is highly technical.
Under all this I hear a profound sense of Entitlement. You have paid for the device, for a guarantee from Nokia, and a user manual. And that is what you have received. You have paid nothing to the community, and they owe you exactly nothing. You have no 'entitlement' to free apps before they are ready for publication: what if the dev intends to sell this when it's finished? Are you willing to pay for having it early?
Is it good to see people with technical knowlegde help out new End Users? Yes, of course it is. It is also good to see new End Users treat people who have technical knowledge with the respect due to that knowledge, especially when they're willing to follow the advice they're given even if it's not what they want to hear.
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Last edited by RevdKathy; 2009-11-29 at 12:23.
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2009-11-29
, 15:40
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#113
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Originally Posted by maemojedi
Let's re-read your original post that I have quoted in it's entirety shall we?
Before I go any further I think it prudent to say my N900 has 0 hardware or software faults. And worked flawlessly since I hit the power switch. Leading me to say (again) with confidence that the N900 is without a doubt the best device I have ever owned. To compare it with any other device on/soon to arrive on the market is in my view, complete lunacy.
However, my experience on maemo.org...
In fact, before I go into that let me start at the beginning. It's no secret that I've been on a quest to get an emulator and roms working on my N900. I have requested information/help both publicly and privately only to be laughed at or receive pm's which state, and I quote, "This process is not meant for end users like yourself"
So I did what any end users (EU) would do and searched youtube. And to my surprise found supernes and sega genesis emulators working flawlessly on the Motorola droid. So after a few tube pms I was lead to a droid forum & after my first post was contacted by a member/lurker of maemo.org
Who explained to me that the reason info is so closely guarded here is because of the basic need geeks have to feel superior to others. And since the N900 is far more advanced than other devices it's a revenge of the nerds kinda thing.
But that aside gave me the step by step guide on how to install an emulator called snesoid and some roms.
Which leads me to wonder, what is the future for the N900? With this being the only maemo forum available (That I know of) And it's most experienced users refusing to help those less experienced. Or palming them off with technicalities. Instead of posting a "How To" thread with an accompanying disclaimer.
And yes I am a EU. My only experience with maemo is the N900. My experience of linux begins and ends with firefox. But what I do know is that in this market. The success or failure rests on the users and community.
And as open as the N900 is, in my experience a large portion of maemo's members are closed.
I'm sure some will sign and tell me that my experience here is invalid. Or more hilariously that the "Not for end users" quote doesn't litter the board.
But most likely they'll focus on the emulator/ nintendo exploring legal action. However before you do please be aware that I'm using the emulator as an example as I have also requested info on other apps/processes. Most recently on how to get a maemo/unique animation for the boot screen and umm...
Guess what I was told?
In closing this community will be built on the backs of end users. And while I'll never give up my N900 I doubt many users will remain loyal once they realize just how closed this place actually is.
Just my thoughts.
In it you say:
I have requested information/help both publicly and privately only to be laughed at or receive pm's which state, and I quote, "This process is not meant for end users like yourself"
You go on to say your were contacted by a "mystery" member of maemo.org in another fora...
after my first post was contacted by a member/lurker of maemo.org
You then go on to post an unquoted bit about "the revenge of the nerds" that is apparently conjecture.
You go on further and use the example of "how to get a maemo/unique animation for the boot screen" and because no one has written a WiKi or has given you a step by step instruction on how to do this you wonder:
what is the future for the N900?
With this being the only maemo forum available (That I know of) And it's most experienced users refusing to help those less experienced.
In closing this community will be built on the backs of end users. And while I'll never give up my N900 I doubt many users will remain loyal once they realize just how closed this place actually is.
Others have come to your defense which I think is admirable and has more to do with the "future" of maemo.org.
Others have not agreed with you and I think that has nothing to do with the "future" of maemo.org but more to do with the logic you used to support your conclusion.
In my posts I have tried to show that I think your logic is faulty. I think your conclusion is wrong because of that. I admit I am guilty of not providing supporting links as well.
To that all I have is this:
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4527
and then this:
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=14059
To show how veteran members treated at least one "newbie" with a unique problem.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-11-29 at 15:46.
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2009-11-29
, 15:46
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Posts: 2,669 |
Thanked: 2,555 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
@ Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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#114
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Originally Posted by maemojedi
That's hilarious on so many levels when you were straight up making stuff up earlier in the thread, but whatever.
Personally I refuse to converse with someone with such a loose grasp of the facts.
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2009-11-29
, 15:58
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#115
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This thread has reduced to a pissing contest. Please refactor.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-11-29
, 16:13
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Posts: 610 |
Thanked: 391 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
@ DC, USA
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#116
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Originally Posted by Texrat
=====D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This thread has reduced to a pissing contest. Please refactor.
I've pissed the furthest so far!
__________________
Nokia 770 Internet Tablet = best device ever made
Deuteronomy 13:6-10; 2 Kings 2:23-24; Judges 19:22-29
Nokia 770 Internet Tablet = best device ever made
Deuteronomy 13:6-10; 2 Kings 2:23-24; Judges 19:22-29
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2009-11-29
, 16:27
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#117
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Yeah thanks for your input
This thread has reduced to a pissing contest. Please refactor.
... I just posted what I believe was a long thought out reply and you responded with a one line general statement about the quality of the thread.If you did not mean my recent post then... Why do you do this with out linking or quoting the posts you mean?
Just wondering out loud. No need to respond.
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2009-11-29
, 16:31
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#118
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Yeah thanks for your input
If you did not mean my recent post then... Why do you do this with out linking or quoting the posts you mean?
Just wondering out loud. No need to respond.
Relax YoDude. I wasn't referring to any of the welcome wisdom that you or anyone else has posted here-- but rather the pissing contests that persist despite it. It was a general assessment and I didn't think there would be a need to point to exceptions. They're self-obvious.
You can easily see I've Thanked your contributions.
It isn't all about You, Dude.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-11-29
, 16:45
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#119
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Originally Posted by Texrat
If I'm pissing in the wrong place, please can I blame it on my age and hormones?
Relax YoDude. I wasn't referring to any of the welcome wisdom that you or anyone else has posted here-- but rather the pissing contests that persist despite it. It was a general assessment and I didn't think there would be a need to point to exceptions. They're self-obvious.
You can easily see I've Thanked your contributions.
It isn't all about You, Dude.
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
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2009-11-29
, 16:45
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#120
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Yup, I was just wondering why not ^that explanation in the first place... that's all.
Relax YoDude. I wasn't referring to any of the welcome wisdom that you or anyone else has posted here-- but rather the pissing contests that persist despite it. It was a general assessment and I didn't think there would be a need to point to exceptions. They're self-obvious.
You can easily see I've Thanked your contributions.
It isn't all about You, Dude.
I was trying to understand how to "refactor"
BTW, when following my links you will see that they are all about me and my experience with this forum.
I didn't know if this is what needed refactoring.
Your follow up explanation was much clearer, Thank you.
Added:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy
It was your insightful post right before mine that sparked me to reflect on my own experiences.
If I'm pissing in the wrong place, please can I blame it on my age and hormones?
BTW, I can no longer piss the longest. I'm more of a sprinter now.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-11-29 at 16:56.
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