I suspect we're not talking about the same thing.

You're probably right. OTOH, just out of curiosity, I searched the N900 forum. There are approximately 500 posts using the word "sucks" and 500 using the word "stupid". I will assume that none were constructive.

Matan, thanks for giving a completely perfect example of what ISN'T constructive criticism:

1. Matan makes no mention of what works on the N900

2. Matan focuses entirely on what doesn't work on the N900

3. Matan makes no proposals for fixing anything

4. Accuses the entire forum of being "fanbois"

5. Implies that anyone who disagrees is trying to do "spin".

This is exactly why I started this thread, it's because posts like Matan's are ruining this community.

The post doesn't really help anyone to improve anything.

I don't buy that for a second.

Context is everything, eh?

I am a bit torn about this thread, subject and all.

First, it is clear to me who is near-trolling and presenting his or her opinions in a very impolite, unfriendly context.

Secondly, most if not all of these PITAs comes up with, in each thread they ravage, at least one argument that I completely agree with and that is completely overlooked by the politically correct core, because of the way it is presented.

If you had a "vote to ban" functionality on this site, I'm guessing no more than three users would have over 10% in the January vote. However, each of these three users do point out valid flaws in product/platform that otherways would be getting less focus than they ought.

On the opposite side, good and generally constructive members filter out meaningful arguments because of the context. To use Krisse as an example:

"
1. Matan makes no mention of what works on the N900
2. Matan focuses entirely on what doesn't work on the N900
3. Matan makes no proposals for fixing anything
4. Accuses the entire forum of being "fanbois"
5. Implies that anyone who disagrees is trying to do "spin".
"

Let me ask you, Krisse, if you bought a Peugeot, blue, and the car radio turned out to be buggy, sort of malfunctioning at times, clearly not what you expect from a radio, would you go to the peugeot forum and:

1) tell them what you like about the car, and how well it does some things,
2) try to keep only part of the focus on the problems, and balance the issues,
3) come up with a new wiring plan for the radio that could make it better,
4) be generally thankful and friendly when a number of members tell you that the radios features was accurately announced before you bought the car,
5) be completely okay with it if everyone told you that your problem is not important and people like you are just whining about what is important to them?

Because, as silly as that sounds, that is kind of how criticism is met here. And I don't think you'd be acting anything like these handful of people, but I also don't think you'd live up to your expectations of constructive criticism.

That said, I'd much rather have you around than... Some others.

Sorry, but I'm going to stop you right there because you're implying something that isn't true.

Maemo.org is NOT the Nokia technical support forum. That's over on Nokia.com.

This is the maemo.org community forum. It's not a part of Nokia, nor is it responsible for Nokia's products.

As I said in the original post, the point of this community is supposed to be to discuss and improve the Maemo platform. The best way of doing that is constructive criticism: say what works, say what doesn't, mention how to possibly fix what doesn't.


I wouldn't expect constructive criticism of customers complaining to manufacturers, of course not!

But this is not a commercial consumer forum, this is a community-run community-led development forum.

If you want to complain in a non-constructive way about a Nokia product, contact Nokia.

If you want to discuss and improve the Maemo platform, hang around on maemo.org.

Those are two different things.

Did I say official Peugeot forum?
If your car stops in the middle of the forest, and you have to walk through snow for a mile to get to the nearest phone, would you only ever contact the official Peugeot forum to complain?

I don't think so. I think you have unreasonable expectations.

Anyway, half the things people complain about is Maemo related, not N900 related, and the other half... Well, there IS a N900 sub forum here.

Volt, while your points have merit on the surface, they omit other critical contexts... the main one being, how many times would this hypothetical person complain? How many posts, how many threads, what degree of frequency, etc? And how would he/she respond after level-headed members here (forget the extreme fans) tried to help?

I'll be quite frank: I see a great deal of disingenuity, belligerence, ignorance, illogic, immaturity and spite on the part of the Vocal Few. In contrast, the typical angry customer wil rant, be met with the usual mix of responses, and make an informed decision on what do next (return device, se if they can resolve the issue, etc). What they won't do is start haunting the forum to enact some sort of personal vendetta-- most have neither the time, energy nor inclination. That's the purview of the trolls and other troublemakers.

It's helpful to mark distinctions among poster types yet there's a tendency in these dialogs to create and address ambiguous clusters instead. That just creates useless axle-wrapping. And around and around we go... thanks to the sociopaths who have a knack for finding those axles and keeping them spinning.

And again I'll bring this up:

Those of us here helping... are not getting paid anything. Let alone enough to have to babysit.