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2010-01-12
, 15:14
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Posts: 287 |
Thanked: 127 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Sweden
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#32
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Originally Posted by Bec
And what Flandry is saying is that this is where the effort should be made rather than working around it by allowing users to install .debs from the GUI. I completely agree.
same debs are on the forum swell but not in extras...
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2010-01-12
, 15:30
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Posts: 191 |
Thanked: 129 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bloomington, IL
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#33
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Originally Posted by joppu
+1
If someone can't install a .deb from command line, they shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
~Jeff
__________________
qAndora - Pandora Radio on the N9/N900
qAndora - Pandora Radio on the N9/N900
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2010-01-12
, 15:35
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Posts: 876 |
Thanked: 396 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#34
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Originally Posted by floffe
You're right but there are apps like eg. starcraft that don't deserve to waste repository space. That engine is miles away from completion but it's still nice to give it a try since someone bothered compiling it.
And what Flandry is saying is that this is where the effort should be made rather than working around it by allowing users to install .debs from the GUI. I completely agree.
Also I find it's somewhat of a constraint.
But the devs have already decided and it's probably for the best.
I say we should lock the thread since it only wastes time.
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2010-01-12
, 15:47
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#35
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Here's my problem. I argued with Bec about Red Pill mode because honestly... I don't feel hand holding people into ****-canning their device is an overly intelligent idea.
And then I had an epiphany... I was over in another thread helping someone with a broken application manager. They could not refresh their repositories... and also, obviously, they could not then install rootsh. This problem exists on all debian systems. I have seen it on both servers and workstations. Sometimes (though rarely), when a repository fails to update properly it corrupts a series of files in /var/lib/apt/lists (I think) that can be safely removed to refresh the repositories completely: but you need root to do it.
And since for some overly ******ed reason I can't possibly fathom, the N900 doesn't come with root out of the box.. means that you have to Jailbreak it! Sure, the difference between Apple and Nokia is that apple wants to sue your backside for jailbreaking their phone - and it requires a computer... but on my android phone I "rooted" my device by downloading and installing a single app for the G1 and gained root. So evidently, we have to "root" our N900's too.
Ridiculous. But the long and short of it is.... currently: If your app manager is broken, you don't have rootsh, you are screwed since they took away Red Pill. There has to be some way to install individual deb files because it's simply required sometimes.
And then I had an epiphany... I was over in another thread helping someone with a broken application manager. They could not refresh their repositories... and also, obviously, they could not then install rootsh. This problem exists on all debian systems. I have seen it on both servers and workstations. Sometimes (though rarely), when a repository fails to update properly it corrupts a series of files in /var/lib/apt/lists (I think) that can be safely removed to refresh the repositories completely: but you need root to do it.
And since for some overly ******ed reason I can't possibly fathom, the N900 doesn't come with root out of the box.. means that you have to Jailbreak it! Sure, the difference between Apple and Nokia is that apple wants to sue your backside for jailbreaking their phone - and it requires a computer... but on my android phone I "rooted" my device by downloading and installing a single app for the G1 and gained root. So evidently, we have to "root" our N900's too.
Ridiculous. But the long and short of it is.... currently: If your app manager is broken, you don't have rootsh, you are screwed since they took away Red Pill. There has to be some way to install individual deb files because it's simply required sometimes.
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2010-01-12
, 15:52
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Posts: 336 |
Thanked: 610 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ France
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#36
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Or they could just back up and reflash. There is a reason backup exists. root isn't required to have this phone function correctly.
Here's my problem. I argued with Bec about Red Pill mode because honestly... I don't feel hand holding people into ****-canning their device is an overly intelligent idea.
And then I had an epiphany... I was over in another thread helping someone with a broken application manager. They could not refresh their repositories... and also, obviously, they could not then install rootsh. This problem exists on all debian systems. I have seen it on both servers and workstations. Sometimes (though rarely), when a repository fails to update properly it corrupts a series of files in /var/lib/apt/lists (I think) that can be safely removed to refresh the repositories completely: but you need root to do it.
And since for some overly ******ed reason I can't possibly fathom, the N900 doesn't come with root out of the box.. means that you have to Jailbreak it! Sure, the difference between Apple and Nokia is that apple wants to sue your backside for jailbreaking their phone - and it requires a computer... but on my android phone I "rooted" my device by downloading and installing a single app for the G1 and gained root. So evidently, we have to "root" our N900's too.
Ridiculous. But the long and short of it is.... currently: If your app manager is broken, you don't have rootsh, you are screwed since they took away Red Pill. There has to be some way to install individual deb files because it's simply required sometimes.
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2010-01-12
, 15:54
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Posts: 876 |
Thanked: 396 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#37
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Ok... now that's a mind job...
We should change the poll to:
But can't the rootsh deb be dpkg-ed too?
We should change the poll to:
- root by default
- install from file
But can't the rootsh deb be dpkg-ed too?
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2010-01-12
, 15:57
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Posts: 124 |
Thanked: 213 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#38
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Here's the classic tension between open systems and general consumer-oriented ones.
When we download and play around with linux on our computers, we implicitly accept responsibility.....Nokia have developed a device for general use that builds upon linux, but can't separate the OS from the device with respect to support. They can't just not support it, that would be suicide....so they close a bunch of doors that present the greatest danger to linux novices - personally, I wouldn't have included a terminal either, let alone root. What I would have done is stripped all 'pointy objects' from the system, and made available a "hacker upgrade"....a one-stop install that gives back full linux functionality. Plaster warnings all over it and do whatever to CYA, but enable the hackers to operate as they always do, yet protect the vulnerable novice from their misguided enthusiasm.
When we download and play around with linux on our computers, we implicitly accept responsibility.....Nokia have developed a device for general use that builds upon linux, but can't separate the OS from the device with respect to support. They can't just not support it, that would be suicide....so they close a bunch of doors that present the greatest danger to linux novices - personally, I wouldn't have included a terminal either, let alone root. What I would have done is stripped all 'pointy objects' from the system, and made available a "hacker upgrade"....a one-stop install that gives back full linux functionality. Plaster warnings all over it and do whatever to CYA, but enable the hackers to operate as they always do, yet protect the vulnerable novice from their misguided enthusiasm.
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2010-01-12
, 16:02
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#39
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Originally Posted by CrashandDie
Seriously? Your answer is to force a user to reflash their device when a simple:
Or they could just back up and reflash. There is a reason backup exists. root isn't required to have this phone function correctly.
Code:
sudo gainroot rm -f /var/lib/apt/lists/*
1) connect to computer
2) press magic buttons
3) download this tool
4) Run this tool against your device that erases most your stuff
Oh yeah.. and don't forget to be either Administrator, or Root on your desktop too!
There needs to be a way to independently gain root on the device without a third party app-manager or even internet connectivity. R&D mode would be a possibility.. except that it also turns a bunch of other crap on that is unnecessary and I hear eats the battery. I would even accept a small "mini" flash of sorts that doesn't erase a users settings or the phone.. and simple ticks whatever magic item it is that makes sudo gainroot work. Like R&D.. except without the added crap. Sole purpose is to gain root.
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Maintaining:
pyRadio - Pandora Radio on your N900, N810 or N800!
If I've helped you or you use any of my packages feel free to help me out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintaining:
pyRadio - Pandora Radio on your N900, N810 or N800!
Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-01-12 at 16:06.
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2010-01-12
, 16:03
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Posts: 3,617 |
Thanked: 2,412 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Cambridge, UK
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#40
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Originally Posted by Bec
You need to be root already to run "dpkg -i".
But can't the rootsh deb be dpkg-ed too?
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same debs are on the forum swell but not in extras...