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Firefox with Leste (10)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 2 days, 22 hrs ago - more...
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2010-01-15
, 15:12
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#62
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Yes but people like me don't particularly like mailing lists for partly the reason Reggie says... you have to create filters every time someone discusses something you don't care about.
Subscribing to threads gives almost all the same benefits as a mailing list except the ability to respond via email. If there was a way to configure it to subscribe to an entire subforum (so all new topics created in community, for example) then it would also work very close to a mailing list but again without the reply capability.. but does *add* the capability of unsubscribing to stuff you don't care about.
My mailbox gets flooded and filled with crap from 4 different freelancer sites, a dozen linux security/bug/etc mailing lists that have actually gotten to the point that they just filter to their own folder and I find myself rarely ever reading them anymore.
Now.. I'll admit being able to respond through email would be tremendously easier on my phone on the go than loading the website and posting on a forum.. but it's not enough of a convenience for me personally to add even more junk to an already massive amount of junk I receive every day. Luckily, few of it is spam: but another reason I hate signing up with mailing lists is sometimes (especially if they get put on public websites) your email address can get picked up by spambots and then you get REAL junk. That's why I use a separate email address for every website or list I sign up with (whatever@mydomain.com) - so I can track exactly where my email is getting stolen/given/sold from.
Anyway... my contributions have been significantly less than almost everyone involved in this thread.. so I know I'm on the bottom of the totem pole.. I'm just offering some examples of why maybe someone may not like to use mailing lists.
Subscribing to threads gives almost all the same benefits as a mailing list except the ability to respond via email. If there was a way to configure it to subscribe to an entire subforum (so all new topics created in community, for example) then it would also work very close to a mailing list but again without the reply capability.. but does *add* the capability of unsubscribing to stuff you don't care about.
My mailbox gets flooded and filled with crap from 4 different freelancer sites, a dozen linux security/bug/etc mailing lists that have actually gotten to the point that they just filter to their own folder and I find myself rarely ever reading them anymore.
Now.. I'll admit being able to respond through email would be tremendously easier on my phone on the go than loading the website and posting on a forum.. but it's not enough of a convenience for me personally to add even more junk to an already massive amount of junk I receive every day. Luckily, few of it is spam: but another reason I hate signing up with mailing lists is sometimes (especially if they get put on public websites) your email address can get picked up by spambots and then you get REAL junk. That's why I use a separate email address for every website or list I sign up with (whatever@mydomain.com) - so I can track exactly where my email is getting stolen/given/sold from.
Anyway... my contributions have been significantly less than almost everyone involved in this thread.. so I know I'm on the bottom of the totem pole.. I'm just offering some examples of why maybe someone may not like to use mailing lists.
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2010-01-15
, 15:26
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#63
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Another thing to keep in mind, to add to fatasaint's points above: email is push, a forum is pull.
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2010-01-15
, 15:31
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#64
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
I feel like many people on the mailing list don't want to hear peoples opinions on the forums, "its to much noise" "people on the mailing list are more engaged contributors" and so on.
Originally Posted by qwerty12
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How do you figure that? The lists certainly don't have a bouncer at the door, so to speak; anyone is free to join and post.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
"Actually, I find the folks who tend to avoid Talk to be quite a bit MORE engaged on average."
Originally Posted by Jac.Kersing
I will not be visiting the t.m.o thread but will miss this list if it is yet another list that becomes a victim of the everything should be a forum mob.
Originally Posted by Andrea.Grandi
I don't wanna have to follow all that rumor only to
avoid missing something important.
Originally Posted by Jaffa
* There's more noise on tmo;
* The SNR is higher. I don't know why; I'm not suggesting that the people on a mailing list are better; it just is. In our circumstance. That's not to say that there aren't excellent posts and posters here either.
I'm just reading? I know its hard, you have to read on the forums and in the mailing list to get the full picture.
Lets engage the entire community, itts time..
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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
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2010-01-15
, 15:53
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Posts: 696 |
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Joined on Mar 2006
@ Asturies, Spain
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#65
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Let's to summarize the discussion:
1) There are people who want the Community discussion in the forum.
2) There are people who want the Community discussion in the mailing list.
It's an endless discussion. Some prefer forum and some prefer mailing list. So, the forum shouldn't be closed, and the mailing list shouldn't be closed.
Solutions:
1) Leave everything as is. Very easy.
2) Synchronize the forum with the mailing list and viceversa.
This is very different to the possibility to use the email to reply/create threads here.
It should be a complete sync, for example: posts to the mailing list are visible here, and posts here are visible in the mailing list.
I'm completely for the solution 2, of course it's the most complicated technically, but the best solutions generally are the most complicated.
With a first look, there are some options like m2f or NNTP gateway
The 3) solution is to be discussing this until that the climate change ends the world.
1) There are people who want the Community discussion in the forum.
2) There are people who want the Community discussion in the mailing list.
It's an endless discussion. Some prefer forum and some prefer mailing list. So, the forum shouldn't be closed, and the mailing list shouldn't be closed.
Solutions:
1) Leave everything as is. Very easy.
2) Synchronize the forum with the mailing list and viceversa.
This is very different to the possibility to use the email to reply/create threads here.
It should be a complete sync, for example: posts to the mailing list are visible here, and posts here are visible in the mailing list.
I'm completely for the solution 2, of course it's the most complicated technically, but the best solutions generally are the most complicated.
With a first look, there are some options like m2f or NNTP gateway
The 3) solution is to be discussing this until that the climate change ends the world.
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2010-01-15
, 16:02
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#66
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Originally Posted by yerga
I disagree,
Let's to summarize the discussion:
1) There are people who want the Community discussion in the forum.
2) There are people who want the Community discussion in the mailing list.
It's an endless discussion. Some prefer forum and some prefer mailing list. So, the forum shouldn't be closed, and the mailing list shouldn't be closed.
Solutions:
1) Leave everything as is. Very easy.
2) Synchronize the forum with the mailing list and viceversa.
This is very different to the possibility to use the email to reply/create threads here.
It should be a complete sync, for example: posts to the mailing list are visible here, and posts here are visible in the mailing list.
I'm completely for the solution 2, of course it's the most complicated technically, but the best solutions generally are the most complicated.
With a first look, there are some options like m2f or NNTP gateway
The 3) solution is to be discussing this until that the climate change ends the world.
Option 1 is make them either mailing-list/forum/other, but only one.
Option 2, is sync them in some way to make both sides happy.
Keeping things the same is not an option, if we want to fix the problem that exists?
Seeing how this was posted less than 24 hours ago, I think we can discuss it a little more, maybe not until the climate changes, but perhaps until the weather changes?
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
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2010-01-15
, 16:19
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Posts: 696 |
Thanked: 1,012 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Asturies, Spain
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#67
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
This is not an option, we'll miss key people if we remove one of the two methods. And we don't want miss people but join people.
I disagree,
Option 1 is make them either mailing-list/forum/other, but only one.
Keeping things the same is not an option, if we want to fix the problem that exists?
Seeing how this was posted less than 24 hours ago, I think we can discuss it a little more, maybe not until the climate changes, but perhaps until the weather changes?
Just that there won't be an agreement to remove the mailing list, so the only known solution is the sync method. Of course I'm completely open to listen and discuss other solutions different to remove the mailing list,
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2010-01-15
, 16:25
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#68
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Originally Posted by yerga
I think the point being made is that having a single, consolidated access point into community discussions as a whole is more important than a couple individuals that refuse to participate.
This is not an option, we'll miss key people if we remove one of the two methods. And we don't want miss people but join people.
Yes, we lose people either way - but in the end, the argument is that it would be better for the community as a whole to have one centralized form of communication instead of scattered thoughts missed by half.
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2010-01-15
, 16:34
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#69
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Perfectly said
I think the point being made is that having a single, consolidated access point into community discussions as a whole is more important than a couple individuals that refuse to participate.
Yes, we lose people either way - but in the end, the argument is that it would be better for the community as a whole to have one centralized form of communication instead of scattered thoughts missed by half.
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
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2010-01-15
, 17:33
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#70
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Here's a great example of an engaged community member. Now that she's found out about another community communication avenue, she's willing to check it out (despite her aversion!). If only other community members would be willing to sacrifice a little for the sake of the community like Kathy. Instead of taking her toys and going home.
I think that last point is an important one.
There have been a couple of occasions when things have appeared and it's been obvious that discussion has gone on elsewhere. I assumed that was 'behind closed doors' stuff, but I suspect now it was stuff that had been debated in email. I wouldn't call it a 'shock' but a bitty of a surprise.
To be absolutely honest, I wasn't even aware that there was a specific email-list for community issues. (I thought the mailing lists were mostly for the complicated stuff I don't understand.) I should probably be on it (despite my aversion to mailing lists!) as my primary interest is the community and keeping it running smoothly. But for many of us raised for years on bulletin boards, this is the 'obvious' method. I'd wager a shilling that most of the thousands of new posters have no idea that there's a mailing list.
A combination/sync is probably the best option.
I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone that flatly refuses to make a some sacrifices for the good of the community communication isn't really interested in the community communication to begin with.
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| Tags |
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- the lists seem developer-heavy
- the forums seem enthusiast (etc) -heavy
I think this continues to point back to our legacy of once being maemo.org and internettablettalk.com. We've shoved the two together but still have yet to integrate the populations.
So maybe the solution is just time, patience and a lot more listening to various viewpoints with due consideration. And more physical encounters like the Summit and Barcelona event (but smaller).
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net