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2010-01-15
, 21:19
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#22
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Here's the thing, if you're not going to play the game that gets your phones into consumer's hands, you're going to have to offer something else. When I have to pay more and go out of my way to get ahold of your product, I'm not going to be willing to put up with additional grief on top of that.
Okay I'll give you all that, BUT those also afflict Nokia's competitors who have better presence. Bad service is damn near universal (and no excuse being made).
Moto RAZR return rates were off the charts, but they still get phones on carrier shelves...
While the RAZR's service and support might suck, as a consumer, I didn't pay much ($100, $50, or even $0) and it's coming from a carrier, so the value isn't very high in the first place and I don't expect good service because, well, it's a US carrier.
On the other hand, if I go and spend $400+ on a Nokia phone that I've had to seek out specifically (not purchase as a "Do you want fries with that?"), I'm going to expect a lot more from the service and support.
Whatever level of service the competition has is irrelevant when you're not selling you product through the same channels and getting the same perception as your competitors.
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-15
, 21:23
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Posts: 290 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Barbados/London
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#23
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.....because americans have a real bad attitude problem...the "we art better than thou" attitude...
i think they lack knowledge in relation to mobile phones...i mean...how can nokia be doing something wrong in their marketing...when it succeeds EVERYWHERE ELSE except america? granted each market is different...but companies are based on some primary principle which constitutes as the brand image/ideology...
lets not start on the journalism....always the wrong facts, skepticism and the "if it isnt american it cant be good" egotistical attitude....
(even watching coverage on the haiti disaster and it wound me up the constant calling of haiti's capital "port of prince"....its "port oh prance"(pron.) do you think we can call "ar-ken-saw"..."ar-kan- zuz"?)
my logic is this: (try to see the relevance) its "soccer" in america yet THE REST OF THE WORLD knows it as football...enough said...
i personally think that nokia are right to ignore america and their "get it now at $99 + a 2yr subscribtion" attitude...why fight a pyrric battle in america? american mindset isnt going to change anytime soon..and nokia dominates the rest of the world...
i know i will come under fire for this from the american communty here......i hope they dont "misunderestimate" the relevance of what im saying....
i think they lack knowledge in relation to mobile phones...i mean...how can nokia be doing something wrong in their marketing...when it succeeds EVERYWHERE ELSE except america? granted each market is different...but companies are based on some primary principle which constitutes as the brand image/ideology...
lets not start on the journalism....always the wrong facts, skepticism and the "if it isnt american it cant be good" egotistical attitude....
(even watching coverage on the haiti disaster and it wound me up the constant calling of haiti's capital "port of prince"....its "port oh prance"(pron.) do you think we can call "ar-ken-saw"..."ar-kan- zuz"?)
my logic is this: (try to see the relevance) its "soccer" in america yet THE REST OF THE WORLD knows it as football...enough said...
i personally think that nokia are right to ignore america and their "get it now at $99 + a 2yr subscribtion" attitude...why fight a pyrric battle in america? american mindset isnt going to change anytime soon..and nokia dominates the rest of the world...
i know i will come under fire for this from the american communty here......i hope they dont "misunderestimate" the relevance of what im saying....
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2010-01-15
, 21:30
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Posts: 151 |
Thanked: 77 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#24
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Reporting on iPhones and Nexus ones is more profitable. These guys have no obligation to report on any device in particular
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2010-01-15
, 21:32
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#25
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Originally Posted by RobertHall
No, but I've heard it pronounced arKANSAS. By Americans.
do you think we can call "ar-ken-saw"..."ar-kan- zuz"
I'll ignore the rest of your anti-american screeching.
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2010-01-15
, 21:34
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Posts: 237 |
Thanked: 157 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ San Diego, CA
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#26
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Originally Posted by Texrat
I tend to agree with this analysis. The US Carriers want to nickel and dime everything related to the phone experience. Open (or even just well executed) platforms run counter to their established business strategy of locking you into a contract on a nerfed phone and charging for everything.
...aaand as I've said many times we can point the blame further down to US carriers and the FCC who insist on perpetuating a closed, customer-hostile ecosystem that runs counter to Nokia's open, feature-rich phone design preferences.
Nokia's attempt to change things failed and backfired thanks to competitors who sucked up to carriers. Now they have to work to regain carrier trust... not easy.
The US regulatory agencies have done little or nothing to prevent the practices. Whether or not they should is an entirely different topic.
The users here have been conditioned to cheap upfront costs and a long expensive contract, seeing the phone much like rental equipment (like a cable box) to enable a service rather than an owned piece of hardware (like a laptop) that can be used on competing services.
Beyond that, as others have said CDMA networks still have the best coverage overall here. CDMA also helps perpetuate the 'rental handset' type perception to, as there is no sim card type system here. The carrier keeps track and enables based on a unique id of the phone, not a swappable card.
For some insight, look how long it took before wifi phones were available through US carriers compared to the rest of the world.
Unfortunately the carriers quite literally own the phone market here, and use this to exert influence on related tech as well.
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2010-01-15
, 21:36
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Posts: 290 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Barbados/London
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#27
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Originally Posted by wmarone
its pronounced ar-ken-saw...not arKANSAS....
No, but I've heard it pronounced arKANSAS. By Americans.
I'll ignore the rest of your anti-american screeching.
google it...
tell me you arent american?
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2010-01-15
, 21:37
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Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 450 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Washington, DC
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#28
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I often find myself going up to the wrong dark blue BMW in parking lots. Whether it's their popularity or my senility is up for debate.
It's interesting that one tends to see a vastly larger number of luxury and performance vehicles on the streets in the US than in Europe. You can't swing a dead cat in traffic without hitting a half dozen BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches, and I see an Aston Martin, a Lotus and a Maserati (as poor a blend of luxury and performance as they may be) on most of my commutes.
I am consistently tempted by Lotus (Aston and Maserati, not so much). I might have gone for the Elise but I need to be able to carry two passengers. If anyone here has an Evora, please let me know if it is everything Autocar says it is.
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2010-01-15
, 21:44
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#29
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
But-- you're actually making my point for me!
Here's the thing, if you're not going to play the game that gets your phones into consumer's hands, you're going to have to offer something else. When I have to pay more and go out of my way to get ahold of your product, I'm not going to be willing to put up with additional grief on top of that.
While the RAZR's service and support might suck, as a consumer, I didn't pay much ($100, $50, or even $0) and it's coming from a carrier, so the value isn't very high in the first place and I don't expect good service because, well, it's a US carrier.
On the other hand, if I go and spend $400+ on a Nokia phone that I've had to seek out specifically (not purchase as a "Do you want fries with that?"), I'm going to expect a lot more from the service and support.
Whatever level of service the competition has is irrelevant when you're not selling you product through the same channels and getting the same perception as your competitors.
It's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Nokia tried to resolve the paradox, and failed. Carriers continue to resent them for that. And I'm not sure what you mean by "go out of my way to get your product"... unless you're saying you don't like ordering over the internet without touching something (and I agree if so).
If Nokia were smart I'd see N900s in Best Buy, Radio Shack, Fry's... but then, maybe they were pressured by the carriers. It's happened with other products here (amazingly enough, a bread company here once forced grocery stores to keep other brands out).
One could say that Nokia might improve their prospects by offering supreme service, BUT if you don't sell anything in the first place, you have nothing to service. And if you don't play the should-be-illegal carrier game, then you usually don't sell anything.
And around and around we go.
(note: this diatribe in no way absolves Nokia of its responsibility to improve its admittedly shitty CARE services)
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-15
, 21:51
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#30
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Originally Posted by RobertHall
I'll assume by your response that you are, in fact, not a native English speaker. For the record, I lived there for 14 years.
its pronounced ar-ken-saw...not arKANSAS....
google it...
tell me you arent american?
Moto RAZR return rates were off the charts, but they still get phones on carrier shelves...
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net