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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-15 , 21:58
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#31
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
I am consistently tempted by Lotus (Aston and Maserati, not so much). I might have gone for the Elise but I need to be able to carry two passengers. If anyone here has an Evora, please let me know if it is everything Autocar says it is.
Indeed, Aston is overweight and Maserati is a poor compromise between luxury and performance. Just keep some rope and a pair of rollerblades in the trunk of the Elise and you'll be fine.
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GeneralAntilles's Avatar
GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-15 , 22:02
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#32
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
It's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Nokia tried to resolve the paradox, and failed. Carriers continue to resent them for that. And I'm not sure what you mean by "go out of my way to get your product"... unless you're saying you don't like ordering over the internet without touching something (and I agree if so).
As a consumer in the US, how do I usually get a mobile phone? I go to my carrier store just up the street, sign up for a contract (or extend an existing one) and get a free or cheap phone on the side (that's the ". . . fries with that?" part).

If I want to get a Nokia phone, I have to specifically seek it out. By and large, you wont find them on the shelves at the carrier stores (and certainly not any of the good ones) and you wont find them at retailers. If I'm buying Nokia, I have to already be interested in their product , be willing to handle the "higher" cost and go out of my way to get it. This all increases the expectation of quality and service, when Nokia doesn't deliver on these (something they seem utterly incapable of doing in the US) you lose that customer and you don't get them back.

Again, Nokia's position in the US is completely deserved.
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Texrat's Avatar
Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-15 , 22:09
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#33
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
As a consumer in the US, how do I usually get a mobile phone? I go to my carrier store just up the street, sign up for a contract (or extend an existing one) and get a free or cheap phone on the side (that's the ". . . fries with that?" part).

If I want to get a Nokia phone, I have to specifically seek it out. By and large, you wont find them on the shelves at the carrier stores (and certainly not any of the good ones) and you wont find them at retailers. If I'm buying Nokia, I have to already be interested in their product , be willing to handle the "higher" cost and go out of my way to get it. This all increases the expectation of quality and service, when Nokia doesn't deliver on these (something they seem utterly incapable of doing in the US) you lose that customer and you don't get them back.

Again, Nokia's position in the US is completely deserved.
You just looped around again.

If the FCC and legislators did their damned jobs, we'd have an open market in the US and not be locked into this criminal mess. The playing field would be level.

I do blame Nokia for bad end customer service. I don't blame them for preferring to conduct business in a more rational way and offer feature-rich phones. Right now that means other markets are much, much more attractive than ours.
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YoDude is offline YoDude
2010-01-15 , 22:11
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#34
Three words. Sales, sales, and um, sales.

As others posted Nokia sales in North America are in the dumper... And as others have posted Nokia doesn't seem to give a rats behind.

The first page of a simple Google search by me for information about your (OB) query , turned up a one year old article posted on CNNmoney that summed up their feelings on the subject then... not a lot has changed since.

Nokia's market share has slid to just 8% from 15% two years ago, according to research outfit IDC.
The rags journalists write on sell ad space. These sales keep them gainfully employed. They would not be as motivated to write about a product that doesn't buy ad space... No matter how good it might be.



>> http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/12/tech...tune/index.htm
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Last edited by YoDude; 2010-01-15 at 22:13.
 
colnago is offline colnago
2010-01-15 , 22:11
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#35
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
...BTW, America, as a whole, gets cars. However America prefers Japanese cars that work to European cars that don't. And I speak as one who has owned two Fiats (Fix It Again, Tony), two Alfas, currently drives a BMW, and is waiting with baited breath for Fiat to reenter the American market so I can get the (rumored to be coming to America) Fiat 500 Abarth or Alfa Brera.
Fair enough...my problem is that Fiat, Alfa, Seat, Vauxhaul, Peugeot, etc, etc, etc, aren't even available to make that "irrational choice" (let me find a running light blue early 90's Fiat Spyder 2000 and see if it takes more than 2 seconds to buy it ), let alone most of America not even knowing those cars exist.

We may have a lot of "luxury cars per capita", but where is the BMW M1? CLK Black (actually may get 1-2 by those in the know)? Ford has a Rally Car...for the past 2-3 decades? Scirocco, they stopped making that years ago? Nissan has a new car called a GTR...what, its been out for years? Etc., etc...
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2010-01-15 , 22:12
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#36
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
BTW, America, as a whole, gets cars. However America prefers Japanese cars that work to European cars that don't. And I speak as one who has owned two Fiats (Fix It Again, Tony), two Alfas, currently drives a BMW, and is waiting with baited breath for Fiat to reenter the American market so I can get the (rumored to be coming to America) Fiat 500 Abarth or Alfa Brera.
Agreed--sorta. I, for one, prefer and love long-lasting and reliable cars. BUT--although one of them is Japanese, the other is European. One of mine is a Japanese 1993 Honda Del Sol, the other is a West German 1974 Volkswagen Beetle. That's 17 years old and 36 years old, respectively, for the math-challenged. They both run spectacularly. Mind you, I maintain them religiously and I took an interest in learning how to maintain them myself as much as I can... but they weren't expensive to keep and just won't die. I.. love.. that. In any case, that's just my anecdotal experience.

Originally Posted by RobertHall View Post
.....because americans have a real bad attitude problem...the "we art better than thou" attitude...<snip>
i know i will come under fire for this from the american communty here......i hope they dont "misunderestimate" the relevance of what im saying....
Not at ALL like the "we are better than thou" attitude from other nationalities and groups? Come on.. there MUST be some of that from the countries that Nokia seems to be doing better in. I hope you don't mis-underestimate the relevance of what I'm saying. hehe

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
But-- you're actually making my point for me!

It's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Nokia tried to resolve the paradox, and failed. Carriers continue to resent them for that. And I'm not sure what you mean by "go out of my way to get your product"... unless you're saying you don't like ordering over the internet without touching something (and I agree if so).

If Nokia were smart I'd see N900s in Best Buy, Radio Shack, Fry's... but then, maybe they were pressured by the carriers. It's happened with other products here (amazingly enough, a bread company here once forced grocery stores to keep other brands out).

One could say that Nokia might improve their prospects by offering supreme service, BUT if you don't sell anything in the first place, you have nothing to service. And if you don't play the should-be-illegal carrier game, then you usually don't sell anything.

And around and around we go.

(note: this diatribe in no way absolves Nokia of its responsibility to improve its admittedly shitty CARE services)
Your conversations are always a deep breath of fresh air because they're so cogent and pertinent. Adding MORE anecdotal evidence is the fact that I purchased my first Nokia IT (N800) at a CompUSA store. If it hadn't been a walk-in purchase, I don't think I would have gotten one.
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2010-01-15 , 22:15
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#37
FYI.. couldn't help it

My 1974 VW Beetle

My 1993 Honda Del Sol


Note, they're both small, reliable commute cars. Not one SUV in our household. No need for one.
 
colnago is offline colnago
2010-01-15 , 22:17
Posts: 518 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#38
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
I often find myself going up to the wrong dark blue BMW in parking lots. Whether it's their popularity or my senility is up for debate.

I am consistently tempted by Lotus (Aston and Maserati, not so much). I might have gone for the Elise but I need to be able to carry two passengers. If anyone here has an Evora, please let me know if it is everything Autocar says it is.


I'm surprised we got Lotus back...for a while, only way to get an Elise was thru an importer that had to swap the motor for an Integra's, among other "conversions". I guess it took public outcry for it to be available thru "normal channels", not unlike the 900.
 
GeneralAntilles's Avatar
GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-15 , 22:20
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#39
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
You just looped around again.

If the FCC and legislators did their damned jobs, we'd have an open market in the US and not be locked into this criminal mess. The playing field would be level.

I do blame Nokia for bad end customer service. I don't blame them for preferring to conduct business in a more rational way and offer feature-rich phones. Right now that means other markets are much, much more attractive than ours.
My point is that the market is the way it is. Nokia, apparently, isn't going to be able to compete by getting the government to fix things for them so their next option is to compete on value. Something they're apparently unwilling or unable to do in the US.
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colnago is offline colnago
2010-01-15 , 22:21
Posts: 518 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#40
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
FYI.. couldn't help it

My 1974 VW Beetle

...
Sweet Beetle!

VW represent!!!


Last edited by colnago; 2010-01-15 at 22:27.
 
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