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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-22 , 20:05
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#51
@NvyUs I really appreciate that! and apologize if I came across as testy. My first inclination as a human being is not to tear anything asunder-- but my instincts as an information manager sometimes conflict with warm fuzzy feelings.
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RevdKathy is offline RevdKathy
2010-01-22 , 20:07
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#52
Fatalsaint, the thread I'm refering to is this one, in which a valued member of the community - one whose opinion I personally value - stated that he wanted Bugzilla kept unfriendly to avoid making excess work for the Bugsquad.

The brainstorm which I started has four pages with imput from over twenty different posters. Mind, I think only one or two of those actually has any resources to do anything. People are more than happy to post in the Brainstorm forum. The top solution has 37 votes. So people are happy to do that bit too.

To me the problem is not that we have a problem with people 'not wanting' to contribute so much as that the ratio of 'people with ideas and suggestions' to 'people able to enact ideas and suggestions' has changed. There are more users than developers.

And short of Nokia funding courses in Maemo at local colleges, that isn;t going to change any time soon.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-22 , 20:32
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#53
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
Fatalsaint, the thread I'm refering to is this one, in which a valued member of the community - one whose opinion I personally value - stated that he wanted Bugzilla kept unfriendly to avoid making excess work for the Bugsquad..
Whoa whoa whoa-- the gist is to avoid unnecessary work created for the bugsquad by people not yet prepared to enter bugs properly.

I agree with the intent although not the tone. Users need a proper indoctrination before using Bugzilla, which does at its core need to be complex. Our challenge is to develop an interface for users that makes it easier and friendlier-- again, a clear part of my User Experience proposal.

Let's not wrap around needless axles.
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ARJWright is offline ARJWright
2010-01-22 , 20:35
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#54
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
To me the problem is not that we have a problem with people 'not wanting' to contribute so much as that the ratio of 'people with ideas and suggestions' to 'people able to enact ideas and suggestions' has changed. There are more users than developers.

And short of Nokia funding courses in Maemo at local colleges, that isn;t going to change any time soon.
There are always more users than developers. That's not a problem, that's reality. And for this community, it wasn't reality until recently - which is where the rug burns are coming in.

Nokia has been known to sponsor courses; however, Maemo is - as I framed in my review of the N900 - not how companies of that size have done business. Its too new, especially in mobile. Learning the lessons of managing communities is something that has to happen on the go. There's no prior art to Maemo, but there will be sufficient lessons.
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2010-01-22 , 20:39
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#55
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Whoa whoa whoa-- the gist is to avoid unnecessary work created for the bugsquad by people not yet prepared to enter bugs properly.
Isn't that what I said? You want people to be 'trained' before they use Bugzilla, which is fair enough. But you can't then complain that they aren't 'committed' or 'contributing' if they don't. That's my point. I don't mind being scared off Bugzilla. I mind the subsequent implication that I don't care if I don't submit bugs.

I agree with the intent although not the tone. Users need a proper indoctrination before using Bugzilla, which does at its core need to be complex. Our challenge is to develop an interface for users that makes it easier and friendlier-- again, a clear part of my User Experience proposal.

Let's not wrap around needless axles.
Your 'User Experience' improvements can't come too soon for me. With any luck they will enable more people to contribute, and reduce the feeling that most new people are only here to take. The reality of the newest device is that it is reaching people who are not technically adept and have never handled anything like these systems before.
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2010-01-22 , 20:40
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#56
Antoine I really, really appreciate your insights.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-22 , 20:42
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#57
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
Isn't that what I said? You want people to be 'trained' before they use Bugzilla, which is fair enough. But you can't then complain that they aren't 'committed' or 'contributing' if they don't. That's my point. I don't mind being scared off Bugzilla. I mind the subsequent implication that I don't care if I don't submit bugs..
Welll... you put a slant on it that wasn't really there. GA is just direct to a fault.

And trust me, I'm working hard and fast on my feedback/testing framework proposal. To the point that the wife is complaining.
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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2010-01-22 , 20:43
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#58
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Let's not wrap around needless axles.
RevdKathy, at the first opportunity, would you please develop an idea for a game involving turning gears and wrapping something--threads, users, rats, sea cucumbers, I don't know--around axles? Thank you. Otherwise, I begin my Whack-A-Rat project.
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2010-01-22 , 20:44
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#59
Originally Posted by RevdKathy View Post
Fatalsaint, the thread I'm refering to is this one, in which a valued member of the community - one whose opinion I personally value - stated that he wanted Bugzilla kept unfriendly to avoid making excess work for the Bugsquad.
Ok.. so I educated myself and read the entire thread. I saw two completely separate points of views.. and all of them had several supporters:

1) make bugzilla itself friendlier
2) keep end users off bugzilla and use a separate method

Very few people did I see not agree that there was a problem, very few did I see say "bugzilla is fine, and force users to learn it". And I don't see where they say keep bugsquad work less.. in fact I saw many more posts saying "That's what the bugsquad is for"...

In Camp one there is Andre it appears but with a somewhat different approach: An upgrade to bugzilla that apparently hides and/or fixes several of the problems mentioned in the thread.

I see several solutions being offered in there... what I don't see - is the thread being "deadlocked" simply because a few refuse to re-tool their favorite system.

You and I read that thread and came to two totally different conclusions Kathy... that thread simply isn't finished yet. Maybe what we need is mediators in threads like that periodically show up and list the solutions presented thus far. Once a large enough solution list is gathered, a brainstorm submitted where people can vote for their favorite.

Really.. it seems to me the infrastructure is there - the problem isn't really in anything designed or not - but in the process. Evidently what we need is for council, or whoever, to actually make an official Document, ala FAQ, that details exactly what to do if you have a problem. Something that lays out for the user exactly where to go, including examples of certain problems.

Plus.. I think it really needs to be determined exactly how Brainstorm is supposed to be used... A specific problem, with several solutions: or a broader parent problem, with several unrelated suggestions.
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2010-01-22 , 20:44
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#60
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
RevdKathy, at the first opportunity, would you please develop an idea for a game involving turning gears and wrapping something--threads, users, rats, sea cucumbers, I don't know--around axles? Thank you. Otherwise, I begin my Whack-A-Rat project.
You're just trying to distract me, aren't you?
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