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2010-01-29
, 19:40
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#22
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Is it needed to state the obvious?
Ovi Maps gives routes. "Routing" and "navigation" ("voice assisted" "turn by turn") are different things and are all common terms in the market with precise meanings.
The Nokia N900 specs and marketing materials are correct. If still you are unhappy please exercise your customer rights with Nokia Care. Let me remind you once more that we are here to collaborate.
Ovi Maps gives routes. "Routing" and "navigation" ("voice assisted" "turn by turn") are different things and are all common terms in the market with precise meanings.
The Nokia N900 specs and marketing materials are correct. If still you are unhappy please exercise your customer rights with Nokia Care. Let me remind you once more that we are here to collaborate.
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2010-01-31
, 11:11
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 193 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#23
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Originally Posted by qgil
Whilst of course technically correct, one would expect that if using the term 'Ovi Maps' for the N900, the majority of buyers would assume the same functionality that all 'Ovi Maps' have on Nokia devices. Especially considering that the N900 is a high end device, no one would expect such a big feature be missing. If the N900 does not get turn by turn, I and many other customers would find Nokias approach slightly disingenuous.
Is it needed to state the obvious?
Ovi Maps gives routes. "Routing" and "navigation" ("voice assisted" "turn by turn") are different things and are all common terms in the market with precise meanings.
The Nokia N900 specs and marketing materials are correct. If still you are unhappy please exercise your customer rights with Nokia Care. Let me remind you once more that we are here to collaborate.
__________________
Vote for these brainstorms if you want any of these functions.
N900 3G throttler (battery saver)
Wireless Media sync (over wifi)
Enhanced/Integrated telephone number search
Fix the track numbers in Music Player
Vote for these brainstorms if you want any of these functions.
N900 3G throttler (battery saver)
Wireless Media sync (over wifi)
Enhanced/Integrated telephone number search
Fix the track numbers in Music Player
Last edited by chrisp7; 2010-02-01 at 08:39.
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2010-01-31
, 19:29
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Posts: 107 |
Thanked: 74 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#24
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I developed an editor for OpenStreeMap (well not released), digged in navit source code, and have two year of experience as user and developer on my Openmoko freerunner.
After a lot of time we did not succeed to have a free turn by turn navigation system (several reasons). The problem is anyway maps data are not free or in open format, and that openstreetmap data are incomplete.
So actually the only way to have a free navigation system on the N900 is to get free ovi maps 3 on maemo5, or to hope that navit developers will have access to map format already freely downloadable for the device.
Well, why the problem? becouse when I go on the nokia site I see a big banner "With Ovi Maps free gps navigation system on your nokia" and that on the n900 there is *already* ovi maps.
So users just expect that a device that arrived only in these weeks on regular shops and that costs about 600 euros is on the list of supported devices (I have an old n70 too, but really I do not pretend to have ovi maps on it!)
Ok, it's not. Why? If this is a precise marketing line it's simply not acceptable. personally 600 euros for me is a lot of money, I'll skip maemo6, and may be I'll buy a new device (maemo7), and just want to be satisfied of my n900 for at least a couple of years.
But I really to not think this is the reality, and as posted before it's a technical problem, but even here I cannot guess why!
So just think nokia may decide to not use the man power to support maemo5, in this case please involve the community, I think that a lot of us may help in creating some sort of "framework compatibility layer".
After a lot of time we did not succeed to have a free turn by turn navigation system (several reasons). The problem is anyway maps data are not free or in open format, and that openstreetmap data are incomplete.
So actually the only way to have a free navigation system on the N900 is to get free ovi maps 3 on maemo5, or to hope that navit developers will have access to map format already freely downloadable for the device.
Well, why the problem? becouse when I go on the nokia site I see a big banner "With Ovi Maps free gps navigation system on your nokia" and that on the n900 there is *already* ovi maps.
So users just expect that a device that arrived only in these weeks on regular shops and that costs about 600 euros is on the list of supported devices (I have an old n70 too, but really I do not pretend to have ovi maps on it!)
Ok, it's not. Why? If this is a precise marketing line it's simply not acceptable. personally 600 euros for me is a lot of money, I'll skip maemo6, and may be I'll buy a new device (maemo7), and just want to be satisfied of my n900 for at least a couple of years.
But I really to not think this is the reality, and as posted before it's a technical problem, but even here I cannot guess why!
So just think nokia may decide to not use the man power to support maemo5, in this case please involve the community, I think that a lot of us may help in creating some sort of "framework compatibility layer".
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2010-02-01
, 05:21
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Posts: 1,559 |
Thanked: 1,786 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Boston
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#26
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Originally Posted by shadowjk
This is the thread where the announcement was made that N900 probably won't get turn-by-turn navigation. I can understand the confusion by those thinking this is the place to protest that decision.
I suspect it'd be much better to complain about marketing inaccuracies to Nokia Care than here :-)
nicola.mfb: I was actually just saying the same thing about the N900 to my roommate tonight while we fiddled around with Ovi maps trying to get somewhere. I told him i was generally happy with the device but there were a few things like Ovi that needed work but could only be fixed by Nokia, and that Ovi was such a case because free and open map data just isn't up to the challenge yet. It's an interesting point you make about them making the data available so that a community map program can do what Ovi fails to do. I mean, we have the data already, don't we?
__________________
Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ
Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ
***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
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2010-02-01
, 08:19
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Posts: 1,259 |
Thanked: 1,341 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Germany
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#27
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From a technical point of view it is very reasonable to use the manpower to focus on the Harmattan Version. I bet, like the rest of the system UI, this version is then written in QT.
So, they have to port them from GTK to QT. The work has just began or finished. So it is not reasonable to develop the old GTK Version and the new QT Version when the end of GTK is scheduled.
We've got soon full QT 4.6 support for the N900.
Advertised here many times: "Develop as much as you can from now on in QT, not in GTK. So the Programms could run under Harmattan without rewriting the code. (or only small changes)"
So, when the Harmattan Version of OVI Maps is based on QT and it is a, from the system firmware, independent Software. Shouldn't it be so hard to port it for the N900 when the Harmattan Version is relased?
So the only reason to point this to Harmattan is because of the long time of development?
Hmm... just a couple of own thoughts.
I bet, qgil wont answer. I'm sure, he's hacked off by this topic... and I can understand this very good.
Personnally, I already knew about the lack in OVI maps when I ordered the N900. But I thought it's only a early beta. "Wait 3 Month and Nokia will fix it. They got the source from the Symbian Version. No problem. They have only to rewrite the UI." But, I guess, I was mistaken.
Last edited by Helmuth; 2010-02-01 at 08:27.
So, they have to port them from GTK to QT. The work has just began or finished. So it is not reasonable to develop the old GTK Version and the new QT Version when the end of GTK is scheduled.
We've got soon full QT 4.6 support for the N900.
Advertised here many times: "Develop as much as you can from now on in QT, not in GTK. So the Programms could run under Harmattan without rewriting the code. (or only small changes)"
So, when the Harmattan Version of OVI Maps is based on QT and it is a, from the system firmware, independent Software. Shouldn't it be so hard to port it for the N900 when the Harmattan Version is relased?
So the only reason to point this to Harmattan is because of the long time of development?
Hmm... just a couple of own thoughts.
I bet, qgil wont answer. I'm sure, he's hacked off by this topic... and I can understand this very good.
Personnally, I already knew about the lack in OVI maps when I ordered the N900. But I thought it's only a early beta. "Wait 3 Month and Nokia will fix it. They got the source from the Symbian Version. No problem. They have only to rewrite the UI." But, I guess, I was mistaken.
Last edited by Helmuth; 2010-02-01 at 08:27.
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2010-02-01
, 14:15
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#28
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Originally Posted by Helmuth
Based on the misleading "marketing" practices of Nokia with regard to OVI and the N900, I am beginning to think even "fixed in harmattan" is dubious.
From a technical point of view it is very reasonable to use the manpower to focus on the Harmattan Version. I bet, like the rest of the system UI, this version is then written in QT.
So, they have to port them from GTK to QT. The work has just began or finished. So it is not reasonable to develop the old GTK Version and the new QT Version when the end of GTK is scheduled.
We've got soon full QT 4.6 support for the N900.
Advertised here many times: "Develop as much as you can from now on in QT, not in GTK. So the Programms could run under Harmattan without rewriting the code. (or only small changes)"
So, when the Harmattan Version of OVI Maps is based on QT and it is a, from the system firmware, independent Software. Shouldn't it be so hard to port it for the N900 when the Harmattan Version is relased?
So the only reason to point this to Harmattan is because of the long time of development?
Hmm... just a couple of own thoughts.
I bet, qgil wont answer. I'm sure, he's hacked off by this topic... and I can understand this very good.
Personnally, I already knew about the lack in OVI maps when I ordered the N900. But I thought it's only a early beta. "Wait 3 Month and Nokia will fix it. They got the source from the Symbian Version. No problem. They have only to rewrite the UI." But, I guess, I was mistaken.
Why, when entering an address in contacts does the N900 assign an OVi maps icon to it if clicking on it does nothing?
These "fixed in harmattan" reports are for single issues and are by no means an indicator that "OVI" as a whole will be fixed.
Is there posted anywhere by Nokia a bullet list of actual features planned for fremantle? Are there goals set for harmattan?
...or will Nokia simply allow bloggers and tech support to point to a resolved bug report of a single issue when asked about OVI as a whole, load the new device and marketing collateral with images of "OVI", and let future customers believe what they want?
The Map program shipped by Nokia on the N900 is in no way complete. Demo versions of TomTom from 3 years ago have more features enabled. There is zero integration with other apps, no way to enter or edit POI’s, and the thing doesn’t even support the N900’s on screen keyboard. The simplest of tasks required by any mapping program is to find or show the way home. With this app you cannot do that without tedium.
Turn by turn navigation is the least of its short comings. I fear that in harmatten we may see turn by turn, and nothing else. I am more disappointed that some of the other issues may not be addressed in fremantle.
…and before anyone suggests I search the bug reports to find the answer or “feel free” to propose or vote for yet another brainstorm, How about no. How about instead, fly a group of Nokia executives to a town 500 miles away, give them each an N900, the keys to a rental car, and then tell them to find their way home.
…or better yet, find their way to a meeting scheduled the next day to discuss OVI services on the N900. They can find the address in an email that was sent to them.
Last edited by YoDude; 2010-02-01 at 14:21.
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2010-02-01
, 14:40
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Posts: 107 |
Thanked: 74 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#29
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Originally Posted by Helmuth
Well, as qt 4.6 will land on maemo5 it's not a toolkit problem, so we may restrict to:
From a technical point of view it is very reasonable to use the manpower to focus on the Harmattan Version. I bet, like the rest of the system UI, this version is then written in QT.
So, they have to port them from GTK to QT. The work has just began or finished. So it is not reasonable to develop the old GTK Version and the new QT Version when the end of GTK is scheduled.
We've got soon full QT 4.6 support for the N900.
Advertised here many times: "Develop as much as you can from now on in QT, not in GTK. So the Programms could run under Harmattan without rewriting the code. (or only small changes)"
So, when the Harmattan Version of OVI Maps is based on QT and it is a, from the system firmware, independent Software. Shouldn't it be so hard to port it for the N900 when the Harmattan Version is relased?
* different wm standard, xatoms, etc. but should be trivial to fix
* different middleware to interact with gps, geodata, contacts etc.
* other things that does not come to my mind actually
I bet, qgil wont answer. I'm sure, he's hacked off by this topic... and I can understand this very good.
Continuing on the technical aspect, and on the point that big part of nokia man power is dedicated to maemo6, do not understimate the man power of community.
I'll happy to collaborate in a community developer team to adapt ovi map 3 for maemo5, signing an NDA if necessary.
If that's not possible to be sure that code will remain private, we may develop a "middleware compatibility layer", using only the exposed API.
Wath do you think about that?
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2010-02-01
, 14:47
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Posts: 1,559 |
Thanked: 1,786 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Boston
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#30
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Originally Posted by nicola.mfb
I think that would be a huge gesture of good will from Nokia, and make everyone a lot less disgruntled, but i'm not sure if their contract with the map data provider will allow it. We may be restricted to reverse-engineering the storage format if we want to "roll our own" solution.
Continuing on the technical aspect, and on the point that big part of nokia man power is dedicated to maemo6, do not understimate the man power of community.
I'll happy to collaborate in a community developer team to adapt ovi map 3 for maemo5, signing an NDA if necessary.
If that's not possible to be sure that code will remain private, we may develop a "middleware compatibility layer", using only the exposed API.
Wath do you think about that?
How about it, Quim? Any chance of opening the maps data format for community projects to make use of?
__________________
Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ
Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ
***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
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"Find your position quickly and accurately with the built-in Assisted-GPS receiver. The Nokia N900 works seamlessly with Ovi Maps to give you the quickest available route as you make your way from A to B"
While the first part of this statement is true regarding A-GPS, we've already established that the 2nd half of this statement is false. It should read something like:
"The Nokia N900 sometimes works with Ovi Maps, providing routes from A-B much less effectively than the cheaper Symbian line-up. *The device is NOT recommended for in-vehicle use since Ovi Maps requires the driver to have to read directions from the device. Please purchase any other device on the market to enable this feature."