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2007-06-02
, 11:21
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#12
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Originally Posted by igor
Yes, you can do it (remove the battery, that is) with the device on. It's actually recommended at the last resort for a hung tablet. No ill -- beyond loss of what's in RAM -- has ever come from it.
The RTC doesn't require the main processor to be on. With a flat battery (flat as your device cannot even start to tell you that the battery is discharged) the RTC can still go on for ages. So it's far better to _not_ remove the battery.
And anyway never do it with the device on.
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2007-06-02
, 11:37
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Posts: 198 |
Thanked: 273 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#13
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Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
That's not correct.
Yes, you can do it (remove the battery, that is) with the device on. It's actually recommended at the last resort for a hung tablet. No ill -- beyond loss of what's in RAM -- has ever come from it.
Of course if the tablet is not responding, there isn't much you can do apart from waiting for the battery to discharge and automatic powerdown to kick in.
Removing the battery abruptly forces the circuitry to undergo improper shutdown and while it's true that in general it _shouldn't_ be harmful, nevertheless it shortcuts all the intended powerdown paths. This can expose weakness both in the design and in the manufacturing.
So i still think it's better to avoid it if possible unless one is willing to deal with the customer service (assuming the warranty is still valid).
For testing sw that can lock the device i'd rather start beforehand a timed command that does "poweroff" after a reasonable period of time.
Unless you are testing a custom kernel/module, chanches are high that the poweroff command will not be prevented and you'll enjoy the drivers doing a proper shutdown of the peripherals.
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2007-06-02
, 12:46
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#14
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Originally Posted by igor
That's not correct.
Of course if the tablet is not responding, there isn't much you can do apart from waiting for the battery to discharge and automatic powerdown to kick in.
Removing the battery abruptly forces the circuitry to undergo improper shutdown and while it's true that in general it _shouldn't_ be harmful, nevertheless it shortcuts all the intended powerdown paths. This can expose weakness both in the design and in the manufacturing.
So i still think it's better to avoid it if possible unless one is willing to deal with the customer service (assuming the warranty is still valid).
For testing sw that can lock the device i'd rather start beforehand a timed command that does "poweroff" after a reasonable period of time.
Unless you are testing a custom kernel/module, chanches are high that the poweroff command will not be prevented and you'll enjoy the drivers doing a proper shutdown of the peripherals.
It is my understanding that some resident "lifeguard" programs look for this behavior (battery removal) before initiating a boot routine that could correct a "hanger".
Particularly "instant on" devices that may keep a kernel or other code resident.
Cell phone manufacturers have been doing this for years. I don't know for sure about the N800.
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2007-06-02
, 13:21
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Posts: 198 |
Thanked: 273 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#15
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Bettery removal is mostly iteresting to prevent loss of data: jffs does journaling over pages, but that doesn't prevent file-level corruption. However modern flashes have very short write time, and anyway the amount of action that can be done in the residual time after the battery is removed is very little.
It is my understanding that some resident "lifeguard" programs look for this behavior (battery removal) before initiating a boot routine that could correct a "hanger".
Originally Posted by YoDude
"instant on" ??
Particularly "instant on" devices that may keep a kernel or other code resident.
Cell phone manufacturers have been doing this for years. I don't know for sure about the N800.
What do you think it's doing during the 30+ s between pressing the power button and showing the desktop?
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2007-06-02
, 18:45
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Posts: 63 |
Thanked: 18 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Chandler, AZ, USA
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#16
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i do believe that 30 seconds or so is the device loading the linux image to ram. and as for battery life between charges, i use my n800 for a few hours a day and leave it on with pidgin running overnight with no problems and i get about a week of standby with the wifi on and connected. bluetooth is off of course.
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2007-06-02
, 19:04
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#17
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Originally Posted by acydlord
i do believe that 30 seconds or so is the device loading the linux image to ram. and as for battery life between charges, i use my n800 for a few hours a day and leave it on with pidgin running overnight with no problems and i get about a week of standby with the wifi on and connected. bluetooth is off of course.
That is my understanding as well... the last image complete with whatever resource allocation that may be causing the hang. Not a fresh boot image.
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2007-06-02
, 23:37
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Posts: 198 |
Thanked: 273 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#18
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Originally Posted by YoDude
I'm not sure I've understood what you mean. But if you are thinking that it saves/restore a snapshot, like you would do on a laptop, then no.
That is my understanding as well... the last image complete with whatever resource allocation that may be causing the hang. Not a fresh boot image.
It _is_ a fresh boot every time it starts.
If instead you are referring to the instant-on feeling, well, then it never goes off. It is always "running", only most of the time the processor is in a state of clock-stop and voltage lowered to the minimum level that is required to retain the information in the registers. The SDRAM is in self-refresh mode.
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2007-06-03
, 02:16
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Posts: 42 |
Thanked: 1 time |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#19
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I hold the power button in and the unit completely shuts off. I then push several buttons (home, etc...) to make sure it is really off.
I have noticed that at times when I take the unit out of the pouch it is on.
I hope nokia has fixes for the inconsistancies in the new OS.
I have noticed that at times when I take the unit out of the pouch it is on.
I hope nokia has fixes for the inconsistancies in the new OS.
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2007-06-03
, 02:26
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Posts: 198 |
Thanked: 273 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#20
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Originally Posted by play2win
The bug you are referring to is related to spurious wakeups that have been seen after using the alarm functionality. I think there's already a bug report about this problem in the maemo bugzilla.
I hold the power button in and the unit completely shuts off. I then push several buttons (home, etc...) to make sure it is really off.
I have noticed that at times when I take the unit out of the pouch it is on.
I hope nokia has fixes for the inconsistancies in the new OS.
And anyway never do it with the device on.