Do we really need a "Bugs" forum here before people can post about bugs on Talk? It seems to me we already have productive bug discussions.

• We have already have "Maemo 5 / Fremantle" for discussion of all software that comes with the N900 or appears on it via an update.
• We have "Development" for issues surrounding development tools and the SDK.
• We have "Applications", "Multimedia", and "Games" for all the other assorted software* that can be installed on top of Maemo.
• We have "Community" for discussion of issues with Talk itself and the other maemo.org servers/services.
• And we have "General" for discussing issues with Maemo, Ovi, and Nokia in, well, general.

A "Bugs" forum would just lump all of the above together and further confuse where discussions should go. "Is this a N900 issue? Is it a Maemo 5 issue? Is it a bug?" "Where was that thread with the fix I need?"

Please, post about bugs on Talk. Post quirks you've noticed and ask if they're already known. Post about bugs in Bugzilla that are important to you so those issues might gather more votes. Post about new bugs you've submitted to Bugzilla. Post questions about submitting bugs to Bugzilla.

Andre and others from the Bugsquad read Talk and can and will be happy to help sort out what's new, what's known, and what can be resolved right now via a workaround or other fix. Plus, a lot of other people here, people not officially part of the Bugsquad, are happy to do the same.

If you identify a new bug, yes, Andre, members of the Bugsquad, and others familiar with Bugzilla may ask if you'd please submit it to Bugzilla yourself. However, if you simply find Bugzilla to intimidating to do so, just say so. They'll understand. They encourage you to submit bugs yourself because getting more people more involved benefits the community (and you, via karma gain), but someone else can always submit the bug on your behalf if necessary.

* Okay, except for add-on software that creates, or runs inside of, an alternative environment. That's "Alternatives", but you get the idea.

I don't want a "Bugs" section so much as a "Whiney, moaney, pissy, ranty" section.

Sorry... for some reason I'm a little bitter ATM and I don't know why...

I would not say that it would confuse. What is this scare of confuse about everything? So what if it confuses? I think that when other users notice that now we are speaking about bug not just helping someone with usage then post could be easily moved to bugs section.

Whole point here is bigger picture. I see this forum right now as chat place and it´s not good thing when we look it at longer timescale. Also it doesn't help that search feels somehow inefficient (google seems to find stuff better than default search) so we end up talking about things over and over again. Ok this happens also because people do not search but still.

Here is something that I was thinking about:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=26

They will be scattered across this forum and will get buried somewhere. If we had area with systematically rules. For example something like this:
- Thread topic starts with [bug xxxxxx ] - description which will be changed as bug get fixed or other status
- default template for description as in bugzilla
- Conversation where advanced users help to make report better
- Other conversations about bug will be emerged to this bugs area conversation

All this little work will eventually pay off after couple of years when we have neatly categorized forum. Then we would have threads with neat topics and they can be bit more easily found from bugs area.

Off course but to my eyes even thought we have these categories this webpage is spaghetti to me. Ahhh..not because of categories but because how people use them. Maybe then it´s just me but I do not find this place very friendly when we are talking about data lookup. After being here while it happens to me daily that I can´t find threads what I was looking for and I know that they exist because i read them. I´m right now learning to google this forum efficently. Feels just stupid.

Whole reason for Bugs area is what you described here. To help bugsquad and to encourage people to make reports better and better and also show people that there is really something going on. (Bugzillas usage is not too easy. Actually I have reported duplicate bugs even i have search them quite long before reporting and still i do not understand why i couldn´t find them)

I´m starting to think that I´m the only one who is confused about this webpage and forum. We should ask this from new users. Not from users who have used this place for years.

.edit
Actually Bugs section is too narrow it should be enchantments and bugs. Basically everything in that area would concentrate on making good Bugzilla entry's. I would like it to be connection link between community members and developers. Bugzilla is only strictly for entry's that are easily reproducible and for people who might be willing to go really deep with debugging tools. In Bugzilla there should be no chatting or "me too" talking. This "me too " and bad reporting could be sucked right to this area and it would SHOW people that there is really something going on. They could whine and yell their hearts out to those threads. Right now they pop up in different threads with different problems and generate so called noise as some higher ranked members of this community have said.

I'm not sure i really understand the main idea behind your post, but i'm pretty sure it's not about "can we have a best/worst about the N900". This is why things are hard to find on Talk: threads don't stay on topic. I'm not complaining, i'm just pointing out an example that is easily at hand. Most of the incoherence in Talk is due to the users of Talk. And that's fine, as far as it goes. One thing the community reiterates over and over when the subject comes up is that there are many who don't want Talk to be an office, they want it to be a pub.

At this point you'll probably find the Brainstorm entry to propose and vote on changes to Talk for this year to be the best place for your suggestions. The mods, as i mentioned already, discussed this issue and want to let the community decide through the already-active process of Brainstorm.

I'm going to have to refactor that Brainstorm though. It's gonna be a lot of work and I'm just trying to find time.