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Poll: What is your opinion about the migration to Moblin/RPM
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What is your opinion about the migration to Moblin/RPM

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ColdFusion is offline ColdFusion
2010-02-17 , 22:18
Posts: 397 | Thanked: 227 times | Joined on May 2007
#141
Originally Posted by rm42 View Post
Why? How does the release of a new OS have any negative effects on your current one? All I need to know is how long they are planning on supporting a device. That would be good to know. How long can I expect to have patches and updates for it should be an important consideration when buying a device. But expecting them to stop OS progress just to avoid making you jealous of those with newer devices is ridiculous.
Yes that's exactly the problem. The support of the older devices stops as soon there's a new one. So having the option to upgrade to the new OS, even without the cool new hardware stuff, is guaranteeing you continuous support not only for the device but for the third party application that also stop releasing updates for the older OSs.
 
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rm42 is offline rm42
2010-02-17 , 22:38
Posts: 963 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Connecticut, USA
#142
Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
Yes that's exactly the problem. The support of the older devices stops as soon there's a new one. So having the option to upgrade to the new OS, even without the cool new hardware stuff, is guaranteeing you continuous support not only for the device but for the third party application that also stop releasing updates for the older OSs.
Well then you need to be clear about what you want. You want continuous support for the lifespan of your device. You can't expect a new OS to limit itself to the confines of older devices. For example, we have all seen the problems on the N900 caused by having such a small root partition. I can almost assure you that the next Nokia Linux device will not have that problem. That means that the OS will be able to have a lot more stuff on / without having to hack an optification solution. The result of that is that the next OS, whether it is MeeGo or Maemo 6 will likely not fit on the N900's tiny root partition. Forcing MeeGo (or any future Nokia OS) to restrict itself to the confines of the N900 is frankly unreasonable, in my opinion.

However, demanding full support for the lifespan of the device is perfectly reasonable. But then the question is, what is the expected lifespan of the N900? Unfortunately, I don't think that is written any where. And that is something we as a community should demand to know.
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awwaiid is offline awwaiid
2010-02-17 , 22:48
Posts: 31 | Thanked: 11 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#143
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Technically we could have an easy-fedora or easy-mandriva on our Maemo systems if they have the right packages compiled for ARM.
This right here really hits home for my why I am so pro-debian (and thus pro .deb). There aren't easy-fedora or easy-mandriva because neither fedora or mandriva lend themselves to that sort of flexibility. I think this says a lot about the flexibility of their packaging systems.

Certainly easy-fedora and easy-mandriva can be done, but the proof is in the pudding -- easy-debian IS done.
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2010-02-17 , 22:49
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#144
Originally Posted by egoshin View Post
Yes and no: in case of RPM there is a chance that Nokia choses a different policy. Because of restrictive RPMs
There is no chance. The policy is that whatever package the device ships with is there, stays there, and cannot be replaced by a package which is not part of the PR (to avoid situations like PR parts using Qt4.6 which they have not been tested with). In other words, you would still have a libqt4-core.rpm and a development libqt4-maemo5-core.rpm which would the be renamed to the first one in the next PR. It's not that a packaging system cannot make the upgrade path or restricts it - it's a Nokia QA policy collateral.
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-17 , 22:50
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#145
Originally Posted by rm42 View Post
Well then you need to be clear about what you want. You want continuous support for the lifespan of your device. You can't expect a new OS to limit itself to the confines of older devices. For example, we have all seen the problems on the N900 caused by having such a small root partition. I can almost assure you that the next Nokia Linux device will not have that problem. That means that the OS will be able to have a lot more stuff on / without having to hack an optification solution. The result of that is that the next OS, whether it is MeeGo or Maemo 6 will likely not fit on the N900's tiny root partition. Forcing MeeGo (or any future Nokia OS) to restrict itself to the confines of the N900 is frankly unreasonable, in my opinion.

However, demanding full support for the lifespan of the device is perfectly reasonable. But then the question is, what is the expected lifespan of the N900? Unfortunately, I don't think that is written any where. And that is something we as a community should demand to know.
IMHO: You should get at least 2 years out of active development and support for your device.

What this means is: I don't necessarily thing MeeGo or Harmattan are required to be ported to the N900.. if they aren't they aren't.

But, Nokia has shown what they think the future is and that's QT development that can be ported.

That's fine... but a cross-compile is likely going to be necessary between MeeGo devices, and the N900..

Therefore, it's my very humble opinion, that there should be an official (and likely paid) Nokia or Intel employee that goes through the repositories for MeeGo and back-ports new software to the N900/Fremantle repositories for the next 2 years. (1 year, 9 months?).

I do not think "have the community do it" is a proper answer personally - because, well, in all communities you have helpers, which is great: But they get bored, tired, real life kicks in, etc - and they drag behind, don't want to do it anymore, receive no benefits from it.. get a new toy to play with.. etc.

So, after the 2 years of dedicated, paid support: then the community has to pickup the slack. But, I believe, there should be official support for at least 2 years for a device.

Android doesn't face this problem as much, because most apps developed on Android will simply work on all the devices out there on Android. There's a few quirks from phone to phone that sometime dev's will or won't fix for you - but the bulk of them just work. Plus, Android has been keeping it's phones updated.
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ColdFusion is offline ColdFusion
2010-02-17 , 23:11
Posts: 397 | Thanked: 227 times | Joined on May 2007
#146
Originally Posted by rm42 View Post
Well then you need to be clear about what you want. You want continuous support for the lifespan of your device. You can't expect a new OS to limit itself to the confines of older devices. For example, we have all seen the problems on the N900 caused by having such a small root partition. I can almost assure you that the next Nokia Linux device will not have that problem. That means that the OS will be able to have a lot more stuff on / without having to hack an optification solution. The result of that is that the next OS, whether it is MeeGo or Maemo 6 will likely not fit on the N900's tiny root partition. Forcing MeeGo (or any future Nokia OS) to restrict itself to the confines of the N900 is frankly unreasonable, in my opinion.

However, demanding full support for the lifespan of the device is perfectly reasonable. But then the question is, what is the expected lifespan of the N900? Unfortunately, I don't think that is written any where. And that is something we as a community should demand to know.
Like I said, I'm not asking for the OS to limit itself or stop adding new features. But it can be made available on older hardware with some workarounds, or even dropping features that require additional hardware. But it'll still be up to date and new apps are still going to be developed and working on the older hardware.
 
ColdFusion is offline ColdFusion
2010-02-17 , 23:18
Posts: 397 | Thanked: 227 times | Joined on May 2007
#147
Just like the problems with the 770 or the FIXED IN FREMANTLE issues. And now we're seeing it again happening but this time much more faster.

Anyway, I think that this merge was a result of a rushed business decision. There were indications that Maemo and Moblin will merge down the road, maybe after Maemo6. But the fact that Harmattan will be pretty much the same as Maemo6 and not a genuine MeeGo product speaks for itself.
 
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ewan is offline ewan
2010-02-17 , 23:53
Posts: 445 | Thanked: 572 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Oxford
#148
Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
Like I said, I'm not asking for the OS to limit itself or stop adding new features. But it can be made available on older hardware with some workarounds, or even dropping features that require additional hardware.
I'd have thought that this is more likely to happen in a MeeGo world than it ever was with Maemo under Nokia. It's clear that MeeGo is intended to have the sort of flexibility that desktop Linuxes already do to run on different kinds of hardware, and use what's avalilable on each without being completely tied to any one of them.

The history of Maemo so far shows that Nokia have been complete to have one release per device, tie them closely together and make any backward porting efforts a huge struggle at best.

Surely for those of us that want future support for the N900 the MeeGo project is the best hope we've ever had.
 
lma is offline lma
2010-02-18 , 02:18
Posts: 2,802 | Thanked: 4,491 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#149
Originally Posted by smoku View Post
One radical difference is a switch from GTK+ to Qt... this will cause a huge drop in developer headcount.
That was the Fremantle -> Harmattan plan. MeeGo actually restores GTK+ as a supported option.
 
tywtyw2002 is offline tywtyw2002
2010-02-18 , 03:20
Posts: 10 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#150
in server rpm is better than deb.
but in maemo is not.because change packages format will have too many problems. if nokia changed install package to rpm,i think maemo will died.
 
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