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2010-02-20
, 16:02
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Posts: 240 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#52
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Of course they do.
1st of all, you're supposed to look at the trend and Nokia is losing market share.
2nd of all, Nokia's biggest market is low end phones not smartphones like the S60.
I haven't read posts other than the initial poster
1st of all, you're supposed to look at the trend and Nokia is losing market share.
2nd of all, Nokia's biggest market is low end phones not smartphones like the S60.
I haven't read posts other than the initial poster
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2010-02-20
, 16:06
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Posts: 487 |
Thanked: 152 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ London, UK
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#53
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Originally Posted by NvyUs
My favorite line so far
you say they are competing Worldwide then you give me a US stat to back up you crap, was you born a tool?
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2010-02-20
, 16:07
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Banned |
Posts: 109 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#54
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Originally Posted by davidh101
And that is why we are here, to report back what work and doesnt.........
I am fully aware of the problems on some Nokia phones, but all new stuff comes out with teething problems, even Apples products.
There are problems with the N900, but all I would say on that is that a bit of research before you buy, and you would know what to expect........I don't believe for one minute that Nokia are expecting this phone to be a really big seller, or 'iPhone Killer', afer all, it isn't a phone, it's an Internet Tablet that just happens to have some phone functions. I got the impression that when I bought this device, I was buying into the unknown, knowing that certain things wouldn't work, and that is the excitement, watching it develop, and in fact helping it to develop. Harmattan is going to be the true public release of this new OS, all the bugs for things like MfE will have been ironed out, and that is when the mass public will start to buy the device.
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2010-02-20
, 16:07
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Posts: 1,885 |
Thanked: 2,008 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ OVI MAPS
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#55
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Originally Posted by bachagabriel
we are talking smartphone stats as in s60 not low end phones
Of course they do.
1st of all, you're supposed to look at the trend and Nokia is losing market share.
2nd of all, Nokia's biggest market is low end phones not smartphones like the S60.
I haven't read posts other than the initial poster
nokia have 40% market share of smartphones, 5% up from last released stats so they are regaining share not losing
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2010-02-20
, 16:11
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Posts: 83 |
Thanked: 34 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Poole, UK
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#56
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Originally Posted by Tex14
Does that mean argueing over, everyone happy again, and Nokia still rule the world (just maybe not the US......yet!!!!)
And that is why we are here, to report back what work and doesnt.........
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2010-02-20
, 20:24
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Posts: 26 |
Thanked: 25 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ USA, Maine
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#57
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As one who lives in the US and has been a fan of Nokia phones ever since my first 6160 about 12 years ago, I fully understand that Nokia does not “owe” us anything thing because we are clearly not the center the universe. That said however, I think they ignore the US market at their own peril. Without a doubt, Symbian has been a very big success and their per unit market share is still very impressive. Likewise, it would be hard to argue that Blackberry has been not been a big success. Problem is, technology is a constantly moving target and Symbian and Blackberry are yesterdays success stories. The future requires touch screens and new OS solution from top from top to bottom. Symbian and Blackberry have both been modified to try and adapt but that approach will be hard pressed to out do something designed from the beginning to work with the new formats. I am not predicting the demise of either Symbian or Blackberry, simply that their market share will likely start to decline.
Those from outside the US think we are just whining about the lack of presence from Nokia, but the two hottest platforms right now are Android and Iphone. When I refer to “hot” I mean simply from a market “buzz” perspective and not from a technological one. For the record, after doing my research, I decided to buy the N900 and while I am very happy with that choice, I, and I suspect most on this forum, are not the “typical” consumer. We can all opine on the virtues of “open source” or the technological feat that is the N900, but at the end of the day, Nokia is a business and wants to sell phones, lots of phones. The majority of consumers view a phone as a tool and not a toy and they just expect it to work. One can argue how restricted and locked the Iphone may be but it does work and it works very well. For the majority of consumers out there, like my wife, the Iphone is the right choice today. Most consumers neither understand nor care, about locking and being closed, they just want a phone that works for them.
Thankfully, none of this is lost on Nokia, they are taking steps to offer a competing solution. Maemo/Meego is very clearly targeting the same space and market where the Iphone and Andoid solutions are establishing a strong presence. Nokia cannot ignore the US because doing so will allow the competition to get even stronger. For what ever reason, Iphone and Android are ever present here in the US and Nokia is barely visible. I recognize that may be different is other parts of the world, but the key point here is that Iphone and Android are growing stronger without competition right now. The stated goals for Meego are impressive and lofty. I just hope the political infighting does not disrupt this too badly so we can enjoy the N900 for all it can be.
Those from outside the US think we are just whining about the lack of presence from Nokia, but the two hottest platforms right now are Android and Iphone. When I refer to “hot” I mean simply from a market “buzz” perspective and not from a technological one. For the record, after doing my research, I decided to buy the N900 and while I am very happy with that choice, I, and I suspect most on this forum, are not the “typical” consumer. We can all opine on the virtues of “open source” or the technological feat that is the N900, but at the end of the day, Nokia is a business and wants to sell phones, lots of phones. The majority of consumers view a phone as a tool and not a toy and they just expect it to work. One can argue how restricted and locked the Iphone may be but it does work and it works very well. For the majority of consumers out there, like my wife, the Iphone is the right choice today. Most consumers neither understand nor care, about locking and being closed, they just want a phone that works for them.
Thankfully, none of this is lost on Nokia, they are taking steps to offer a competing solution. Maemo/Meego is very clearly targeting the same space and market where the Iphone and Andoid solutions are establishing a strong presence. Nokia cannot ignore the US because doing so will allow the competition to get even stronger. For what ever reason, Iphone and Android are ever present here in the US and Nokia is barely visible. I recognize that may be different is other parts of the world, but the key point here is that Iphone and Android are growing stronger without competition right now. The stated goals for Meego are impressive and lofty. I just hope the political infighting does not disrupt this too badly so we can enjoy the N900 for all it can be.
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2010-02-20
, 23:14
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Posts: 1,589 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Arlington (DFW), Texas
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#58
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Originally Posted by Tex14
How did they do it?
Just look at the profits that Apple made, they beat the WHOLE NOKIA with one product! Unbelievable. And yes they do have good marketing but they also have focused on one product and made it extremely user friendly and it payed off
* With an unfair ad agreement that allows them to self market, while all others are prohibited from making their own ads.
* By blocking Flash in the browser to force the need for apps to access services and content, which they tax developer profits for at a massive 30%, they pad their war chest.
* They colluded with at&t by sharing in their profits from fleecing consumers with its ban on Flash, padding their pockets as well.
* Apple has squatted on the intellectual property of the entities that spent the most money and did all of the research and patent filing to make mobile computing and communication possible, and patenting trivial things that add little to the industry.
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2010-02-20
, 23:24
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Posts: 1,589 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Arlington (DFW), Texas
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#59
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You guys make Americans look so stupid. American education and knowledge of the world outside of the US is at an all time low.
The US market is the laggard of the converged device market. Most Americans with a smartphone are using their second or third smart device. Meanwhile, penetration in Europe is so high, many people have more than one device. We are new to smartphones and advanced features, so prefer the simple devices with training wheels and the least barrier to entry. Also, carriers' unfair practices limit what devices we have access too. All my friends are STILL shocked by the sight of an HTC Advantage, N90, or E90, when those were common phones abroad YEARS ago!
America isn't the high end market benchmark. Our market is perverted by having some of the highest priced devices with massive subsidies, making them compete with midrange devices. Also, carriers allow Apple to self market, while Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, and others are forbidden, skewing sales figures and allowing uninformed folks to think it is the product to have because of the uptake.
I myself find an iPhone or Blackberry Storm II midrange devices. Nowhere is the far-better-than-everything-else power of an N90, E90, or N95. While you guys moan about a $500 phone, I’m used to $800-$1200 for devices, sometimes with a premium to have them imported into the US. I've never bought a device as cheap as the N900, so I'm pretty well versed in high end phones. So your cheap Nokia phone talk is inaccurate. Nokia had phones over $1000 retail at one time. Pricing doesn't define high end anyway, but hardware and features do.
Symbian is not pretty, but is the standard Apple and Android copies. 5th Edition was really 3rd Edition with a touch layer until they could retool for Maemo/Meego and S^4. Looks can be deceiving, but anyone depending on a device for its features and not needing a hand hold or training wheels will tell you why Symbian is king.
davidh101 said:
You just managed to insult the intelligence of most of the world with the latter half of that statement. In my time reviewing phones and doing analysis for Maemo-Freak, Symbian-Freak, PhoneReport, former Android-Freak.org, and other sites, there is no comparing the technical skill of the developers and users outside the US. I’ve met 15 year old hackers from China, Indian farm villagers that code right on their low end affordable Nokias with Python, Russian guys that can eat through “unbreakable” encryption, and on and on. These kids speak 3 and 5 languages, and will intellectually mop the floor with half of this community!
These are sometimes people that have never owned a PC, and will travelfar distances just to charge a device. They know what apps are, but honestly, many Symbian devices didn’t need them. In 2007, the N95-1 had an embedded YouTube client and Flash in the browser, for example. They mostly laugh at an iPhone for its many shortcomings compared to their more complete devices of lower cost, though marvel at its large screen, which they could probably never afford. I still wonder why we stupid Americans fall for marketing and think we are superior when we usually are inferior, just better off financially.
So say what you like, but there is a reason Nokia is tops in the game. Apple has had near 100% growth for years, and still can’t carry Nokia’s jock strap! Hats off to them, but its more than UI and iTunes lockin. Nokia never ignored the US. They stood up for carrier oppression of consumers and OEMs while we sat quiet and took it up the rear. It was a short term loss for Nokia, but they’re still number one, and now the carriers see what they missed out on. Look for Symbian and Maemo/MeeGo to invade the US carriers big time over the next 18 months. Then talk to us about this stuff...
GaryHT627 said:
MeeGo is NOT targeting the Android or iPhone space. That is Symbian’s job, and it has done so well, dominating both of those OSes combined. MeeGo is the next generation of computing, and just as likely to be powering the next Playstation, Vizio flatscreen TV, Clarion car media center and navigation unit, or netbook as a smartphone like device. Those OSes are miniaturized platforms with various compromises. MeeGo is on the level of OSX, Windows, and Ubuntu, and is poised to usurp at least one of them.
The US market is the laggard of the converged device market. Most Americans with a smartphone are using their second or third smart device. Meanwhile, penetration in Europe is so high, many people have more than one device. We are new to smartphones and advanced features, so prefer the simple devices with training wheels and the least barrier to entry. Also, carriers' unfair practices limit what devices we have access too. All my friends are STILL shocked by the sight of an HTC Advantage, N90, or E90, when those were common phones abroad YEARS ago!
America isn't the high end market benchmark. Our market is perverted by having some of the highest priced devices with massive subsidies, making them compete with midrange devices. Also, carriers allow Apple to self market, while Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, and others are forbidden, skewing sales figures and allowing uninformed folks to think it is the product to have because of the uptake.
I myself find an iPhone or Blackberry Storm II midrange devices. Nowhere is the far-better-than-everything-else power of an N90, E90, or N95. While you guys moan about a $500 phone, I’m used to $800-$1200 for devices, sometimes with a premium to have them imported into the US. I've never bought a device as cheap as the N900, so I'm pretty well versed in high end phones. So your cheap Nokia phone talk is inaccurate. Nokia had phones over $1000 retail at one time. Pricing doesn't define high end anyway, but hardware and features do.
Symbian is not pretty, but is the standard Apple and Android copies. 5th Edition was really 3rd Edition with a touch layer until they could retool for Maemo/Meego and S^4. Looks can be deceiving, but anyone depending on a device for its features and not needing a hand hold or training wheels will tell you why Symbian is king.
davidh101 said:
Symbian is by far the most widely used OS for a mobile phone, if only the majority of user that had a symbian phone realised that their devices are as powerful as an iPhone
These are sometimes people that have never owned a PC, and will travelfar distances just to charge a device. They know what apps are, but honestly, many Symbian devices didn’t need them. In 2007, the N95-1 had an embedded YouTube client and Flash in the browser, for example. They mostly laugh at an iPhone for its many shortcomings compared to their more complete devices of lower cost, though marvel at its large screen, which they could probably never afford. I still wonder why we stupid Americans fall for marketing and think we are superior when we usually are inferior, just better off financially.
So say what you like, but there is a reason Nokia is tops in the game. Apple has had near 100% growth for years, and still can’t carry Nokia’s jock strap! Hats off to them, but its more than UI and iTunes lockin. Nokia never ignored the US. They stood up for carrier oppression of consumers and OEMs while we sat quiet and took it up the rear. It was a short term loss for Nokia, but they’re still number one, and now the carriers see what they missed out on. Look for Symbian and Maemo/MeeGo to invade the US carriers big time over the next 18 months. Then talk to us about this stuff...
GaryHT627 said:
“Maemo/Meego is very clearly targeting the same space and market where the Iphone and Andoid solutions are establishing a strong presence. Nokia cannot ignore the US because doing so will allow the competition to get even stronger. For what ever reason, Iphone and Android are ever present here in the US and Nokia is barely visible. I recognize that may be different is other parts of the world, but the key point here is that Iphone and Android are growing stronger without competition right now.
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"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
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"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
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2010-02-20
, 23:38
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Banned |
Posts: 109 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#60
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Originally Posted by christexaport
Oh boy, oh boy........please dont generalize about people on this board. I have lived half of my life on 4 continents, and seen more countries than you ever will. GaryHT post is very appropriate and he was eloquent when he said that the battle of sophisticated smartphones is happening on the US soil, and NOKIA is missing. I think that iphone put a superb product, and whether there were other components that helped them, I dont know, but the bottom line is that Apple has always produced high quality, user friendly devices that are idiot proof. That aside, MeeGo is there to compete with iphones (which many consider mini computers too, just like macintoshes are considered computers also), and NOKIA is going back to basics so that they can withstand the onslaught coming from every side. Remember, vast majority of people are not developers. They want a reliable device that will do as much as possible. When it comes to smartphones, iphone and droids rule.
You guys make Americans look so stupid. American education and knowledge of the world outside of the US is at an all time low.
The US market is the laggard of the converged device market. Most Americans with a smartphone are using their second or third smart device. Meanwhile, penetration in Europe is so high, many people have more than one device. We are new to smartphones and advanced features, so prefer the simple devices with training wheels and the least barrier to entry. Also, carriers' unfair practices limit what devices we have access too. All my friends are STILL shocked by the sight of an HTC Advantage, N90, or E90, when those were common phones abroad YEARS ago!
America isn't the high end market benchmark. Our market is perverted by having some of the highest priced devices with massive subsidies, making them compete with midrange devices. Also, carriers allow Apple to self market, while Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, and others are forbidden, skewing sales figures and allowing uninformed folks to think it is the product to have because of the uptake.
I myself find an iPhone or Blackberry Storm II midrange devices. Nowhere is the far-better-than-everything-else power of an N90, E90, or N95. While you guys moan about a $500 phone, I’m used to $800-$1200 for devices, sometimes with a premium to have them imported into the US. I've never bought a device as cheap as the N900, so I'm pretty well versed in high end phones. So your cheap Nokia phone talk is inaccurate. Nokia had phones over $1000 retail at one time. Pricing doesn't define high end anyway, but hardware and features do.
Symbian is not pretty, but is the standard Apple and Android copies. 5th Edition was really 3rd Edition with a touch layer until they could retool for Maemo/Meego and S^4. Looks can be deceiving, but anyone depending on a device for its features and not needing a hand hold or training wheels will tell you why Symbian is king.
davidh101 said:
You just managed to insult the intelligence of most of the world with the latter half of that statement. In my time reviewing phones and doing analysis for Maemo-Freak, Symbian-Freak, PhoneReport, former Android-Freak.org, and other sites, there is no comparing the technical skill of the developers and users outside the US. I’ve met 15 year old hackers from China, Indian farm villagers that code right on their low end affordable Nokias with Python, Russian guys that can eat through “unbreakable” encryption, and on and on. These kids speak 3 and 5 languages, and will intellectually mop the floor with half of this community!
These are sometimes people that have never owned a PC, and will travelfar distances just to charge a device. They know what apps are, but honestly, many Symbian devices didn’t need them. In 2007, the N95-1 had an embedded YouTube client and Flash in the browser, for example. They mostly laugh at an iPhone for its many shortcomings compared to their more complete devices of lower cost, though marvel at its large screen, which they could probably never afford. I still wonder why we stupid Americans fall for marketing and think we are superior when we usually are inferior, just better off financially.
So say what you like, but there is a reason Nokia is tops in the game. Apple has had near 100% growth for years, and still can’t carry Nokia’s jock strap! Hats off to them, but its more than UI and iTunes lockin. Nokia never ignored the US. They stood up for carrier oppression of consumers and OEMs while we sat quiet and took it up the rear. It was a short term loss for Nokia, but they’re still number one, and now the carriers see what they missed out on. Look for Symbian and Maemo/MeeGo to invade the US carriers big time over the next 18 months. Then talk to us about this stuff...
GaryHT627 said:
MeeGo is NOT targeting the Android or iPhone space. That is Symbian’s job, and it has done so well, dominating both of those OSes combined. MeeGo is the next generation of computing, and just as likely to be powering the next Playstation, Vizio flatscreen TV, Clarion car media center and navigation unit, or netbook as a smartphone like device. Those OSes are miniaturized platforms with various compromises. MeeGo is on the level of OSX, Windows, and Ubuntu, and is poised to usurp at least one of them.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 23:24.
Once this standardisation has finished (T-Mobile are pushing for this in many ways), the US market will be a completely different arena, that is when the other Manufacturers will really try to gain their large growth in market share
Last edited by davidh101; 2010-02-20 at 16:00. Reason: just to make the quote work