Well nevermind.

just keep it simple - its not THAT hard

A pinned sticky on the N900 and Meego forum that has the bold capital lettering "The future of N900 and MEEGO", that lists with bullet points what is known and what is NOT, and MAYBE a third section saying "what MAY be". The "What is known" part contains what is 100% known, back with links/quotes/youtube vids or whatever.

No point at ALL putting it in the wiki because users looking for answers will hit the forums first thing, and if you look at google for n900/meego google links to the n900 forum threads DIRECTLY (now THAT is spreading your "FUD"). If you want ppl to see the answers first thing, you either have the content in the pinned sticky OR link to the wiki entry in the pinned sticky.

No elaborate development super roadmaps etc are required, as the ppl looking for answers and creating "FUD" are most likely ppl who just wnat answers, they dont care about anything else.

I'm sorry, but you are not correct on this one. The N900 is a mobile computer, if might be step 4 of 5, etc. But this is perceived as such only from tech people who had some maemo experience before or who are somewhat tech savvy enough to do research, read tech blogs and all that geek stuff.

Moreover, a lot of Nokia ads advertise it as a mobile phone with lots of capabilities:
http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products...#/main/landing

There are others that don't even mention "computer" anywhere.

When a regular user sees that, it is obvious that he expects a mobile phone better than or equal any other that are displayed at the site (That means better than series 40 or series 60, but the regular buyer would not know it).

I like the N900 too and I'm not planning on any ohter phone for now. For me Nokia N900 is the best somewhat open mobile device with phone stack that I've been interested in. Where it shines more than any other (yet) is the idea that I can develop, port or adapt any FOSS software for it, if I want to. it also has some decent hardware specs.

If it weren't for the "fixed in maemo6", "wont fix" or "make it a brainstorm, this is not easy to fix" typical responses for filing bugs, the N900 would be a real winner.

When you say: "it will be fixed on the next version, but I don't know if your device will be compatible with tat version" you are saying that it just won't be fixed. When some of those things are really expected things for a mobile cell phone, people start to get angry.

I could write a book in response to the above but I will spare you and focus on a few specifics.

The council is the primary advocacy body for the community and should be utilized as such by Nokia

Example: I would have preferred a more formal process around the USB breakage issue. In fact there should have been an investigative team wrapped around it after I first reported my instance. Maybe there was internally (I doubt it) but the council should have been engaged by Nokia quickly and formally to facilitate a faster and less antagonizing resolution. I didn't mind at all running interference, but I did not care at all for the lack of communications (not blaming you Quim-- you were very helpful and responsive when needed). The council could have helped Nokia avoid bad publicity and speed up the resolution process for N900 owners.

caveat: in hindsight I realize I should have created a hardware bug report for the USB problem.

The council should have had more involvement in the MeeGo go-live

Yes I understand the issues around NDAs and such but I still believe we could have been a tremendous help in reducing the FUD following the announcement. I see our engagement in events like that as win-win for Nokia and the community. Note that council members (current and past) stepped up quickly and strongly afterward-- that's why we're here. Use us.

The council should have periodic meetings with Nokia

I don't just mean the monthly scrum stuff. I mean phone/online strategy and policy sessions. I also think there should be a midterm physical meeting, sponsored by Nokia and in the future the MeeGo organization. I grant the cost and logistics issues but this is just something I think would have great value all around.

The council should help facilitate threads like this one

Let us act as your proxy, as I suggested via email. We can help shape the message and keep Nokia from looking heavy-handed. Again: that's why we're here. I would have liked to have had a session (IRC?) where the council collected questions from the community, distilled them into a formal Q&A, then engaged you and/or any other representatives to get good, solid answers to lingering questions (rather than soft PR responses that contribute to the FUD). Even a "we are unable to answer that right now for business reason X but are working on a way to answer it" is less evasive than many answers we receive.

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I could keep going but hopefully those get the point across. Thanks for listening.

This thread has been a delight to read.

On topic and polite discontent members discussing with doers, community leaders and on topic and polite content members with hardly any troll-calling or intentional FODing. (Though I think the FOD, Trolls, Apologizers and other belittling and derailing terms are being used too often around here, like most other forums.)

The thread has few absolute statements and doesn't go into bug details any much. It may have started out as a suggestion to route some noise away but it has turned into an interesting and constructive debate on how to better handle real issues that does indeed make it harder to give this platform full commitment at this exact point in time. And as I judge this, it's unusually little "defensive mode" in this thread despite rather compressed (but valid) criticism.

konttori, in one single post you brought back most of my lost faith in this platform.

And qgil, I haven't always thought so lately, but I now think you're on the right track again. I am not equally convinced about the people further up in the business system, but then that goes for all business organizations. And I am sad that you would chose to leave your position as volunteer moderator, even if you have good reasons. I am not one of those who would think your two roles were in conflict here, and any moderator is a resource.

One thing though, I have to say though.

Yes, quite some time before the N900 was announced, I heard through threads in this forum that the next device would be step 4 out of 5. And I've seen it in tech blogs, usually with a bit of sarcasm included. I know you feel that "it is sold as a mobile computer with the Internet in its heart, and it was introduced as 'step 4 of 5' for tech leaders / lovers." As you intended for it, I am sure. I am one of those who researched before I bought, so I know what you say is true. It was announced. To a handful of people.

However, this is just not how the N900 is seen in the eyes of the world. The N900 appears like a milestone project discovered by higher level Nokia people, picked up and used as an medkit when the N97 had hurt the Nokia image in the market. Well, I'm sure this could not be further from how things work over there, but that's how it looks now.

Because, in the eyes of all the world except a handful working for Nokia and another handful of members of the Maemo community, the N900 is the newest, most advanced top of the line telephone from Nokia. There is no way around that. If you expected people to think of this as a mobile computer with phone functionality, then Nokia Marketing betrayed you. Have you seen a single ad anywhere, anytime, that even hinted that it's not equally advanced on phone functionality? No. Does it say "with added phone functionality" on Nokias pages? No. Does it look like any other Nokia phone on the Nokia lists? More often than not. And the chains have as such not picked up on this not-existing distinction. Each and every net ad I have seen for it has portraited it as "Nokias most advanced" or "A phone and more!"

Yes, it was step four out of five on the way to step one of Meego. But that's simply not what it is sold as. You have to accept that no one* outside of this community thinks of it as a mobile computer with added phone functionality.

* Making a generalization here, I am sure you can name at least one.

That said, I have been very worried about the lack of visible direction, and to some extent the lack of willingness to admit that worried customers may not be completely to blame when they are more worried than usual. Now I see that my worries, while not unfounded, are being handled in a competent way.

I still have 10 months of down-payments left, so it's good to be able to put down the shoulders for a bit.

I think what I would like to see come out of this discussion is for some representative(s) of the community (e.g. the Council) to compile a list of hot-topic questions, and for someone from Nokia (e.g. Quim) to get answers for them, and for the result to be published somewhere (probably the Wiki) as a reference to point people to when these questions come up in future.

Doing this successfully will require some changes from Nokia, and a willingness to answer questions that may not normally be answered in the mobile phone industry. If we get that, then I think the community can handle the rest.

Quim, this is the kind of thing I'd love to see in a wiki article somewhere, on meego.com or maemo.org.

Also, if there is a wiki article being worked on around these topics, can you please edit the first post and add a link to it?

Although I am 100% behind you with this, the problem with such list is that it quickly turn into a wishlist of "bring X to Maemo 5 / N900".

Edit :

I tried to make a rough list of what was discussed here and in other topics. I did that out of memory and trying to avoid a wishlist as much as possible.

Question 0 : Will any of the answers to those questions be backed officially by Nokia ?

Maemo’s future :

Question 1 : Is Maemo 5 still a viable platform. Does it worth my time to write applications for it ?
Question 2 : What is the roadmap for Maemo 5 ?
Question 3 : What is the point of developing an application without Qt ?
Question 4 : What will happen to Maemo 5 when MeeGo 1 is on the market ?
Question 5 : What is the plan for Ovi Store for Maemo 5 ?
Question 6 : Will Maemo 5 support Ovi Services (Ovi Suite) ?
Question 7 : Why there has been no PR1.1.1 in the United Kingdoms ?

N900’s future :

Question 8 : What are the plan toward a more open N900 ?
Question 9 : Will there be resources at Nokia dedicated to bringing MeeGo 1 on the N900 ?
Question 10 : Will Nokia repeat past behaviour (770 and N8X0) with the N900 ?

Community :

Question 11 : What will happen to Maemo.org once MeeGo 1 is on the market ?
Question 12 : Will there be a higher degree of engagement with the community council ?
Question 13 : Will there be more openness from Nokia toward the community ?
Question 14 : Are we, the N900 user, only beta testers to you ?

MeeGo :

Question 15 : What is the rationale behind dropping Debian package format/ architecture ?
Question 16 : Will the early design phase for MeeGo 1 include support for N900 ?
Question 17 : What is Nokia’s commitment to MeeGo ? 1 or 2 years, maybe more ?

Nokia relation with 3rd party

Question 18 : Will Maemo 5 be able to run Adobe Flash 10 hardware-accelerated ? (Remember that Nokia can talk to Adobe, N900 users can’t)
Question 19 : Can we get the drivers for the N900 ? (Remember that Nokia can talk to TI, N900 users can’t)

Wishlist :

Question 20 : Can we expect [top 5 request] on Maemo 5 / N900 ?

It could, which is why I'm suggesting having someone like the council filter it down to a basic list of things we really need to know, rather than declaring open season.

It's a compromise, and it's not going to suit either 'side' completely (though, really, we're all on the same side here), but I'm hoping that it would be workable.

Folks, I couldn't resist this quote (from José Saramago's Caín, translated from the Portuguese) which illustrates to a certain extent the ongoing debate:

"Los designios de dios son inescrutables, ni nosotros ángeles, podemos penetrar en su pensamiento, Estoy cansado de esa cháchara de que los designios de del señor son inescrutables, respondió caín, dios debería de ser transparente y límpido como cristal en lugar de este continuo pavor, de este continuo miedo, en fin dios no nos ama"

which would translate more or less as:

"The designs of God are inscrutable, not even we, the angels, can penetrate their thought, I'm tired of this talk that the designs of the Lord are inscrutable, Cain said, God should be transparent and clear as crystal in place of this continuum dread, this continuum fear, finally god doesn't love us"

Regards,
Antonio