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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-03-03 , 15:38
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#151
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
I tried the donation route Fatal on an app that had 300,000 downloads. I ended up with about 50 donations. But I received THOUSANDS of emails telling me exactly what they thought was wrong/new features/general *****ing. I tried to support them as best I could but when I started getting death threats against myself and my family when I didn't give them the answer they wanted (no I am not making this up) I made the app paid (still leaving a cut down version for free). At least that way If I was going to have to deal with *******s I would be making a small amount from it.
The whole experience of that and a number of the responses here have left me with very much a feeling of FARK USERS, and an urge to write software purely for myself only.
I've never been that popular with my software to have to deal with that. The model I came up with originally when I wrote some software a while back and had it on my website (since removed because I stopped maintaining them) - was that if someone requests a specific feature or wants something into it that wasn't there... they can donate.

Bug fixes, or things not working as advertised - I take on as my responsibility for writing the software broken. Adding anything to it... well - it's free. So if I get the time.. maybe.. if not - you can either Donate to me, which will make me care what you think.. or write your own. I did.

Death threat emails would go straight to /dev/null.
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attila77 is offline attila77
2010-03-03 , 15:40
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#152
Originally Posted by azorni View Post
Well, I meant : apart from this licence agreement, of course.

I've already wrote that, as long as you agreed to end user license, you gave your word and you have to stick to it.

But it 's a word you gave only because it was required by the seller, I don't see any ethical or economic justification to it.
You also pay for goods or services 'only' because it is required by the seller, not because you like it But seriously, software is tricky business, it's very difficult to measure the 'added value', or justification as you put it. I know we established analogies suck, but think about this way.

Imagine public transportation. You have the option of buying a ticket or walk. Instead, you just jump over guardrails, claiming you only want to 'test' the system and that you will buy a ticket at the end destination if you like it, or claim that if could not get in without a ticket, you would have not used the system anyway. The transport company has the same costs regardless if they have 1 or 100 passengers per carriage, so you might think it doesn't matter.

Now, for those that DO buy a ticket, what you are asking is, why is it bad if you buy a ticket and then let in 99 of your buddies in for free ? Because at 1 customer per ride, the system is not profitable. If none of your buddies would have paid anyway, the system is doomed as it's not sustainable at that ticket price. If some would have paid, but didn't, the system is also doomed, as they lost revenue. Only paying customers make THIS particular business model viable. Alternatively, they could turn to subscription, or, the easy way, just tax everybody (not really a win, eh ?).

That's why many systems have complex admission systems and/or people checking passenger tickets occasionally - they are the transport company's equivalent DRM. Does the guy who checks your ticket bother you ? He could penalize you - you might have bought a proper ticket and misplaced it. Paranoid companies might employ hidden X-Ray machines to check on you. Your actions while using the system might be supervised via camers. But the bottom line is the same - whether you are bothered by tickets or not, your choice is to USE or NOT USE the transport system. You can protest in front of the company about terms, prices, but you DO NOT GET TO RIDE WITHOUT A TICKET WHATEVER THE 'REASON'. This also applies to copying - I hope I don't have to explain why copying tickets for your buddies is a problem ?

My suggestion is to get a bicycle. Clean, free and keeps you in shape
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Bratag is offline Bratag
2010-03-03 , 15:41
Posts: 2,014 | Thanked: 1,581 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#153
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
I've never been that popular with my software to have to deal with that. The model I came up with originally when I wrote some software a while back and had it on my website (since removed because I stopped maintaining them) - was that if someone requests a specific feature or wants something into it that wasn't there... they can donate.

Bug fixes, or things not working as advertised - I take on as my responsibility for writing the software broken. Adding anything to it... well - it's free. So if I get the time.. maybe.. if not - you can either Donate to me, which will make me care what you think.. or write your own. I did.

Death threat emails would go straight to /dev/null.
/dev/null my *** I forwarded them all to the ecrimes division of my local police. Which resulted in a 12 year old boy begging me to drop the charges - this after he threated to kill me, rape my wife and kill my child. If I had it in my power I wouldnt simply have had him charged I would have beaten the little **** within an inch of his life.
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-03-03 , 15:44
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#154
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
So all paid software should be pay by month based - hell thats fine with me.
Depends. In the case of WoW and Eve you are connecting to a Server owned and operating by someone else. That's what I consider the money per month to going to. Them keeping those servers online.. not the game itself.

And as I said.. in WoW you can download and install the game.. and play on a Free WoW server and never pay a dime.

I don't mind supporting wow once they made the installer available for download. I had bought the original WoW discs forever ago and have since lost them.. and I refused to re-buy them. Once the installer was easily obtainable.. now I just pay them while I use their service, and don't when I don't. I'm not paying "for the game" in my mind, I'm paying for them to keep the servers up so I can play on them.

Something like Fallout 3 I admit.. there's no middle ground. You aren't always connected to their servers.. but something as graphically intensive and world-in-depth as that game took 1000's upon 1000's of hours to build. People need compensation.

Personally.. I think the problem is not that they need money but that people don't donate. I don't think requiring pay software, or enforcing DRM are the way to go - I think people that use software should be more giving if they like and actually *use* it.

Unfortunately... the latter isn't happening - forcing people to do the former - forcing people like me to have to make a decision on whether or not I want to support that company or writer.

For games.. I'm more lenient: I'll buy a game if it natively supports Linux. I got to pick my battles here...

For normal office/desktop software - I won't pay for it. There's a free alternative somewhere or I'll write it myself.
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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-03-03 at 15:47.
 
azorni is offline azorni
2010-03-03 , 15:44
Posts: 16 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Paris, France
#155
Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
The grammer is not the book. By creating a book you are documenting the standard. Are you actually this dense or just trolling? I've shown your posts to several French guys here in case it was a language issue and they are of the same opinion.
I wrote : « a grammar book is still a book ».

This is metalanguage concept and this should not be ignored by a software engineer. I'm quite surprised.
 
fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-03-03 , 15:46
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#156
Originally Posted by Bratag View Post
/dev/null my *** I forwarded them all to the ecrimes division of my local police. Which resulted in a 12 year old boy begging me to drop the charges - this after he threated to kill me, rape my wife and kill my child. If I had it in my power I wouldnt simply have had him charged I would have beaten the little **** within an inch of his life.
Hah.. it appears I'm not the only one that's had a teen arrested before. Win.

I had one threaten to assassinate the president in an IRC network I run.. went straight to NCIS (I was in the navy at the time so they were the on-base security and that's where I lived.) who sent it up.

You're correct though.. death threats should go to ecrimes.. not ignored. I stand corrected . And I also agree that the kid deserved a little one on one time with a rabid and hungry pit bull...
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Fargus is offline Fargus
2010-03-03 , 15:48
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#157
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
For Music I've actually switched to Pandora Radio. It's simply easier.. and it's free . I haven't bought a CD in a *long* time.
..
Good for you, you are actually earning your play though by contributing usage data so it's not free, someone else is paying for you.

Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
...
Unfortunately... there is no alternative to movies. I like movies.. and nobody can make me feel guilty that I have some movies on my hard drive of my computer that I stream to my TV over an HDMI cable (using Ubuntu, I might add).

First off... I have bought copies of the vast majority of them..
..
So becuase you have bought some then you feel you are entitled to all, even though you may not have contributed anything to the people whi's work you are using? Rather selfish really.

Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
...
I simply prefer watching something that isn't going to totally break on me.. requiring that I once again have to pay to get something I already had because it was built in such cheap quality.
...
A lot of publishers will replace the media for you, so this is not an excuse.

Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
...
ETA: This also happened with software for me. I used to use windows.. and yes I'll admit I used Pirated software because as a teen I couldn't afford the expensive stuff. Does that mean the developers time wasn't worth it? No.. but I couldn't afford it.. and since it was out there I didn't make myself suffer just to feel not-guilty at night.
...
But by taking a copy without paying for it you are saying exactly that! If you can't afford something then either find an alternative or save up for it! Everything in life has a cost associated with it, maybe it is about time you started paying for your costs too. I can't afford some of the items in life that I would like to own too but I dn't just take them and then decide not to pay for them. Just because someone else removed the barrier to obtaining this it made it ok? So if someone looted a store and offered you the items at a knock down price would you think that acceptable too? (I suspect you would).

Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
...
Since I've switched to Linux things are significantly better.. I don't use any pirated software - because I can completely avoid using any pay software. I don't buy anything off of Google Market for my Android either.
Excellent - at last you aren't ripping anyone off I hope! Shame it isn't becuase you have improved your morals!
Last edited by Fargus; 2010-03-03 at 16:19. Reason: Tag fix
 
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ysss is offline ysss
2010-03-03 , 15:49
Posts: 4,384 | Thanked: 5,524 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
#158
@Bratag: Dude, you've gotta tell us what kind of software you wrote to wind up a 12 yrs old that bad
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Fargus is offline Fargus
2010-03-03 , 15:52
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#159
Originally Posted by azorni View Post
Well I don't buy nor play games.
And as for DVD, this is another topic, but not much different.
....
Why is this different? Software on DVD's are a signifanct part of the content too.

Originally Posted by azorni View Post
...
Well, as long as open source software does exist, I wonder wether retail software industry is really necessary and desirable.
...
So support the open source software and don't ripp off the commercial sector. If open source works better then the model will change but don't be a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by azorni View Post
...
Well, I've earned quite a lot of money as software engineer in an investment bank and now I live on stock markets. But this is digression, personal life of people should not be used in a debate.
...
I have investment banks amongst my customers too but what tools were you using in your development? If you used the MS stack at any point that is retail software!
 
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Fargus is offline Fargus
2010-03-03 , 15:54
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#160
Originally Posted by azorni View Post
I doubt it would be the end of the world.

Also, since you mention Nokia, please notice that this firm has made a huge step towards open source.

As far as i'm concerned, I had no smartphone but as soon as I heard about the N900 with a version of debian inside, I immediately went to a store and bought it cash.

So my guess is that Nokia has made quite some money with this open source software.
Nokia is actually still living on it's IP though unless you have missed all the information about the legal wrangles between Apple and Nokia? nokia are also not selling Maemo, they are selling the hardware which is definately not open for all.
 
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