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2007-07-07
, 08:14
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Posts: 1,463 |
Thanked: 81 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ UK
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#142
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Originally Posted by geneven
They really didn't though. The only thing which has been committed to was Skype which has been delivered (albeit a week late).
I think there is a problem, but it's Nokia's not yours. A lot of promises were made and implied by Nokia ads and publicity.
The hype and expectation was caused my members of this forum whipping themselves into a frenzy. Really, anyone who was expected a Maemo 4/Chinook-based OS with updated Flash, updated Opera, Java, a brand new whizzy iPhone-like interface, improved email client, improved *everything* was just plain delusional.
It was obvious people were going to be disappointed. It was obvious that there'd be some under-the-cover improvements and bug fixes, it was obvious it'd be another Bora release (i.e. Maemo 3.x). The only bit I wouldn't have expected (if Texrat hadn't said anything) was Flash 9... but then that doesn't really bother me either.
The N800 is nice, but it could have been a contender. I don't see enough effort being made to compete successfully with companies like Apple. In the meantime, the N800 fits my needs more or less perfectly, so I will just keep enjoying it for what it is, for as long as it lasts.
Nokia needs people like Texrat participating here. This is the center of the N800 world, and its fate will be determined here. If Nokia doesn't understand that, it cannot succeeed.
Cheers,
Andrew
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2007-07-07
, 08:23
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Posts: 269 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Finland
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#143
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Originally Posted by aflegg
Yes. Many of us (including myself) all expecting too much and we incline to take hints and rumours for granted. Moreover, - but I nknow nothing about OS development pace- maybe it s illusional to expect quantum leap improvement 17 weeks after the previous release?
The hype and expectation was caused my members of this forum whipping themselves into a frenzy. Really, anyone who was expected a Maemo 4/Chinook-based OS with updated Flash, updated Opera, Java, a brand new whizzy iPhone-like interface, improved email client, improved *everything* was just plain delusional.
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2007-07-07
, 08:39
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Posts: 631 |
Thanked: 1,123 times |
Joined on Sep 2005
@ Helsinki
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#144
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Originally Posted by mobiledivide
There are many Nokia people related to the Maemo program that are reading these forums. Take me for instance. I'm a member of the interaction design team for Maemo. (Check out http://maemointeraction.wordpress.com btw. - plugplug! One way to communicate directly to the UI design team.)
I think that Nokia by been so removed from the audience is really missing some things. I believe that the corporation should communicate with their audience. I am assuming that at least a couple of people over at Nokia read this forum and surely they could have sensed that a letdown was being created by all the meaningless hype. All they would have to do is instruct Ari Jaaksi to release a blog post or even a forum post to say that there would be no BT support, and no skype video support or something along those lines to temper the rabbid fanbase.
Texrat its unfortunate that the higher ups don't realize how much of an advantage they have in having an employee embedded in the user community, I for one think the new update is a step in the right direction.
Anyway, we cannot really go into a mode where we would read all the hype and start confirming/shooting it down one by one. That's not what any company in this field really does. Think about Apple or MS or anyone. There are many reasons, fortunately or unfortunately for that. Legal, implementation, contractual, marketing etc. Publicly committing beforehand to certain features in a certain schedule really limits the flexibility. Of course we then shouldn't be a in a mode where we would fan the flames of hype, so to speak.
Also it then depends a bit on the definition of a new feature. Things like bugs are actively being discussed in our bugzilla system. (And we're working on to further improve this.)
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2007-07-07
, 09:19
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Posts: 269 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Finland
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#145
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Originally Posted by ragnar
It s nice to see the hand of God or his little finger :-) touching us through the clouds...
Anyway, we cannot really go into a mode where we would read all the hype and start confirming/shooting it down one by one. That's not what any company in this field really does. Think about Apple or MS or anyone. There are many reasons, fortunately or unfortunately for that. Legal, implementation, contractual, marketing etc. Publicly committing beforehand to certain features in a certain schedule really limits the flexibility. Of course we then shouldn't be a in a mode where we would fan the flames of hype, so to speak.
Also it then depends a bit on the definition of a new feature. Things like bugs are actively being discussed in our bugzilla system. (And we're working on to further improve this.)
Personally I understand the business constraints you list and the way Andrew has described the cycle of "hype and desillusion".
However - IMO- it remains that the prime factor for all this is and this is a positive side: the potential of the IT, even more as it s Linux based. To achieve this potential requires a lot of work, patience and communication between design, development, applications level, and end users.
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2007-07-07
, 11:11
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#146
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I don't agree that the hype was created here. Go back and look at some of those daffy commercials. Wasn't there video in them? Users were depicted doing some far-out things. I'll try to hunt one up and look at again. Maybe the realistic thing was to assume that Nokia was just lying its head off, but I thought that Nokia was announcing what it was going to do with the N800.
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2007-07-07
, 14:38
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#147
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Originally Posted by ragnar
It felt good to read your post ragnar.
There are many Nokia people related to the Maemo program that are reading these forums. Take me for instance. I'm a member of the interaction design team for Maemo. (Check out http://maemointeraction.wordpress.com btw. - plugplug! One way to communicate directly to the UI design team.)
Anyway, we cannot really go into a mode where we would read all the hype and start confirming/shooting it down one by one. That's not what any company in this field really does. Think about Apple or MS or anyone. There are many reasons, fortunately or unfortunately for that. Legal, implementation, contractual, marketing etc. Publicly committing beforehand to certain features in a certain schedule really limits the flexibility. Of course we then shouldn't be a in a mode where we would fan the flames of hype, so to speak.
Also it then depends a bit on the definition of a new feature. Things like bugs are actively being discussed in our bugzilla system. (And we're working on to further improve this.)
I don't believe anyone expects Nokia to officially respond to forum hype, so let's take that permanently off the table of discussion, okay?
The essential point here is that rumors emerge in the absence of facts. Granted, there are indeed details which Nokia MUST hold secret-- few are arguing that. And not everyone expects a day-to-day diary of details. That's unrealistic.
But the fact remains that there are STILL communication gaps that can be easily filled, with proactive dispensations designed to keep the tablet users (and especially developers) encouraged. This could be as basic, for one example, as an occasional "we're still working on getting Skype ready so hold on!".
It is the dearth of such bon mots that rumor and user-generated hype arise. The element that seems strangely lost on Nokia is that the tablets poke farther into the Open Source community than any device of its kind. That has tickled the interest of hardcore folks who strongly disagree with the percentage of proprietary components involved. It may well be impossible to make these OS advocates completely happy, but in my opinion more outreach should be done than has been. This doesn't mean giving up trade secrets, a conclusion some Nokians mistkenly assume from such requests. It means being as open and honest as reasonably possible and striving for consensus mutually beneficial to Nokia and its intelligent purchaser base.
The tablet users are far more savvy than your average Mac or Windows user. To a large extent, the community has been deeply steeped in the Linux world which is far, far different than anything involved in commercial enterprises. I realize the development team should be able to get that, but that understanding doesn't seem apparent to the tablet community, which in general is very surprised at some moves... and especially the silence.
The sad and ironic thing is, were this true Open Source, the community would have solved those significant lingering bugs long ago, and cut your development time by a large portion. They know this, and it galls them. They WANT to help. They are frustrated at not being able to, as they would in any other true Open Source endeavor.
But, lacking that level of involvement, at least throw a bone or two out to the community on occasion. No trade secrets. No defensive posturing, either. Just a periodic "hey guys, we're still alive!". That sort of effort can work up some truly important good will, and perhaps mitigate the forum frenzy.
Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-07-07 at 14:41.
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2007-07-07
, 14:44
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#148
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Originally Posted by Texrat
That's okay. Come november, we'll all load OpenMoko on the tablet and happily forget about Nokia software "development".
But, lacking that level of involvement, at least throw a bone or two out to the community on occasion. No trade secrets. No defensive posturing, either. Just a periodic "hey guys, we're still alive!". That sort of effort can work up some truly important good will, and perhaps mitigate the forum frenzy.
Just my 2 cents.
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2007-07-07
, 15:12
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#149
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..and then it will be as it was in Zaurus-land, until something new comes around ?:-)
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2007-07-07
, 15:41
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#150
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Originally Posted by fpp
Why not? Isn't that the Linux way: If it works, don't break it. If it doesn't work, ditch it and don't look back?
..and then it will be as it was in Zaurus-land, until something new comes around ?:-)
My QTopia-based Archos still works, and never crashes; I have a complete(-ish) Office suite for it (albeit obtained on a legally shakey basis) and all the programs I need for it. Heck, I can even plug in a USB keyboard and mouse and use a TV as monitor. Bear in mind that it was intended as a beefed-up media player.
The problem with the N800 is that a lot (and I mean a LOT!) of the basic functionality that QTopia gives, is missing from Maemo, even considering the geriatric condition of QTopia. I don't want the latest and hottest, I just want enough stuff to do what I need to do.
Consider this: Since 2005 many, many people have been asking for a decent port of Abiword to ITOS. It has become clear that there is not enough incentive from the OSS community to make this happen (which is not a complaint: OSS developers are allowed to do what they want; I don't pay their salary, so I don't get to set their agendas), and yet Nokia has done zilch all in this field. The same goes for a lot of other applications the community has been asking for.
It seems to me that Nokia is quite happy to take the easy road, hide themselves behind the perennial moniker: "It's an Internet Tablet, not a PDA!" and just sit back and assume they are great contributors to the Open Source movement.
I really like the N800 (and my 770 as well), but this attitude is beginning to seriously bug me. Just have a look at OpenMoko.org and OpenMoko.com to see how a real open platform should look like. I can still remember (heck, everyone can by going into the archives of this forum) how people reacted and gave suggestions after Nokia announced the 770. Exactly 0 (zero) of those suggestions made it into the consumer-ready version of the 770. The OpenMoko folks have adapted the hardware platform even before it came out, based on community feedback.
Now that I like...
You can see what happens 2 posts up.