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javispedro is offline javispedro
2010-04-11 , 20:44
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#41
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
i am not talking about _packages_ (or software other than drivers).
If you cannot deduce what drivers are open from what you've been given.... *sigh*. A little of effort from your part, please.

Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
it's not maemo i care about (i'd very much prefer a proven good and independend distribution, debian, instead of the crippled stuff nokia provides and abandons as their fancy takes them)
Ah, classic. They don't hire people from OSS, they never contribute upstream, they never adhere to freedesktop standards, they don't appear in the major contributors to the kernel lists...

Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
i guess the basic parts work out of the box, but what about cameras, sensors, gsm, wlan, ...?
So why don't you try and tell us like several people have done? There's people who pushed for the wlan, and the net result was a Nokia employee writing a GPL driver by himself (now used in the N900). There was push for the GSM, and someone got oFono working (which might be not want you want).

First do, then rant and request when you hit a roadblock, then we will listen.

For example, a common roadblock is BME, and that is being worked on as I write!
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-04-11 at 21:07. Reason: typo
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-04-12 , 02:47
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#42
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
Heh... all discussions about the future of N900 all leads back to the question: "When will (next_firmware) be released?"

Generally electronic consumer goods companies don't give out dates unless:

a). They're trying to rally their troops for a new product launch.
b). They're trying to qualm the mass when a certain brown element has hit a spinning air moving apparatus.

Firmware updates.. packaging changes.. minor hard/software revisions... are all usually done without any announcements. It usually only matters to those who have made the purchase anyway, so it doesn't generate any positive marketing effect.... and if the release date slips (as all IT-development projects usually do) it will reflect badly on them. What's the advantage?
Please dont start asking about when the next firmware upgrade as this thread has NOTHING to do with that subject, it is about programming ANY os into the N900.
The advantage is self explainitory of making sure the N900 stays open source and with enough source code available to not depend on updates from Nokia.
Please read the topic heading BEFORE posting on this thread.
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-04-12 , 02:58
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#43
What would be nice for the future of the N900 is all components and their related drivers become available to enable end user with programming experiance to be able to decide for himself what OS is most suitable to them for the N900.
It has been said many times that the N900 is a hackers dream so as the topic of this thread states : Is the N900 completely re-programmable for any OS? if so we have no worries at all what OS Nokia bring out in the future. What is apparent it seems is there are closed drivers being used that need to be open source, in doing so we really do have a dream mobile phone / computer on our hands the N900 !
 
arne.anka is offline arne.anka
2010-04-12 , 12:27
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#44
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
...
it seems to be _really_ hard for some people to grasp, that asking for the openess of the n900 is not a matter of maemo/meego.
please, stop thinking in terms of "m[aemeeg]o vs whatever" and don't denounce stuff you don't understand as "rants".
 
Crashdamage is offline Crashdamage
2010-04-12 , 13:03
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 747 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
#45
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
it seems to be _really_ hard for some people to grasp, that asking for the openess of the n900 is not a matter of maemo/meego.
First, why is everything I said 'invalid'? Could it be because you've missed my point entirely?

Second, I understand you are concerned about the openess of the N900 hardware not of Maemo/MeeGo. Why can't you understand Nokia does not have total control over that? And why are you complaining here instead of to those who do control the various closed drivers Nokia does not?

Third, while Nokia's actions so far may not be up to your standards, can you name another major manufacturer of mobile devices with a better attitude toward open standards? Seems to me that with Maemo, now MeeGo, open-sourcing of Symbian and support of open Qt and open-source in general that Nokia is pretty much the open-source leader in mobile devices.
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javispedro's Avatar
javispedro is offline javispedro
2010-04-12 , 13:37
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#46
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
it seems to be _really_ hard for some people to grasp, that asking for the openess of the n900 is not a matter of maemo/meego.
YES IT IS, is it so hard to understand that Maemo is as much as a GNU/Linux distro as any other one and having a fully open GNU/Linux distro working flawlessly on the N900 is enough for your purposes? That every modern free/alternative/hobby OS fishes for drivers on either Linux or FreeBSD and thus having documented, free, working GNU/Linux drivers & applications to all practical purposes is the same as having "a fully open n900"?

Unless you're demanding here Nokia releases a "HOWTO PORT YOUR HOBBY OPERATING SYSTEM TO THE N900", which won't happen. Not even OM did that.


It HAS ALL TO DO with freeing Maemo. Yes, even the GUI apps. Or you do you want a useless camera driver (which is already open) without any of the postprocessing algorithms (which are closed)?

Please explain this to us instead of blindly saying "Invalid".

Basically, fully free Maemo ↔ "reprogrammable N900". Maemo is not fully free, so the N900 is not fully reprogrammable. You'll hit closed roadblocks as you port your kernel to the N900. We work on them and either RE them or push for opening them.
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-04-12 at 13:49.
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-04-12 , 14:31
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#47
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
YES IT IS, is it so hard to understand that Maemo is as much as a GNU/Linux distro as any other one and having a fully open GNU/Linux distro working flawlessly on the N900 is enough for your purposes? That every modern free/alternative/hobby OS fishes for drivers on either Linux or FreeBSD and thus having documented, free, working GNU/Linux drivers & applications to all practical purposes is the same as having "a fully open n900"?

Unless you're demanding here Nokia releases a "HOWTO PORT YOUR HOBBY OPERATING SYSTEM TO THE N900", which won't happen. Not even OM did that.


It HAS ALL TO DO with freeing Maemo. Yes, even the GUI apps. Or you do you want a useless camera driver (which is already open) without any of the postprocessing algorithms (which are closed)?

Please explain this to us instead of blindly saying "Invalid".

Basically, fully free Maemo ↔ "reprogrammable N900". Maemo is not fully free, so the N900 is not fully reprogrammable. You'll hit closed roadblocks as you port your kernel to the N900. We work on them and either RE them or push for opening them.
I think the problems are now becoming apparent and for some serious programming to take place for the N900 it can only happen if the data sheets are made available for each smd/device/component in order to properly write software safetly in accordance with the spec and gain maximum working ability to the complete running of the system as a whole.
Third party apps are an emulation and not written the way they should because of lack of data thus the reason of the simplicity of whats available currently for the N900.
For something to be "invalid" would happen under the current situation where the data as a whole is not available.
My personal opinion is that for the Maemo community to establish a proper hold on the N900 it MUST have available to it the complete data plan of the N900 from every source, not easy to do when multiple different manufactured devices are used on the system board.
Phewww what a nightmare lol.
 
nicola.mfb is offline nicola.mfb
2010-04-12 , 15:19
Posts: 107 | Thanked: 74 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#48
I just think/guess/hope that the average N900 user is a GNU/Linux fan, and is used to partecipate in other communities as well.

The same average user (or a part of them), prefers to fix problem by itself, and do not cry.

Here you have to wait for the next PR upgrade, hoping that nokia developers decided to fix/implement what you need, so peoples start waiting and crying.
On the next PR 1.2 you'll not get voice assisted navigation? ringtone customizable by contact? they will start again to wait and cry for the PR 1.3.

Now, if you want to stop crying you:

1) announce definitively that maemo/meego will be supported/improved on the n900 for years, so enjoy your device, and next upcoming major software release.

or:

2) open definitively the developing process (opening sources of some/all core parts, publish git upstream repository, etc.) and let the community develop what needed (and have benefit on that) and say : "ok, meego will never be released for the n900, but no problem, we'll build and support it with a community fork, or a completely new OS as there is really a good and live freesmartphone stack available)".

The third (we will not support you, and do not open anything) for me is unacceptable.

Ignoring the first one, IMHO will shut in the head Nokia, as you may see apple verticalization and device OS upgrade on older iphone 2g should be a great example of good marketing and user satisfaction.

About the second one, there are EXPLICIT example of the fact this is possible and feasable, OpenMoko stopped to support the freerunner, Nokia/Trolltech stopped Qtopia development, well, we have community fork of Qtopia plus debian and OpenEmbedded based distro that are going on with fast and hard development. All that for free and based only on voluntary community effort.
They are working on palm pre, htc too, what's a pity that FSO guys were not able to get an N900 with a discount, for sure we get an N900 initial support too.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Niko
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-09-29 , 06:38
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#49
If only the community had gone the right route and obtained data sheets to enable correct functionality of the components within the N900 to enable further development, we would have had a much more "together" Maemo community.

Maemo is dead as far as Nokia are concerned but not for this community.

I am just looking back at the threads i started with some of the idea's i tried to make happen but alas many of you have your ways that do not belong on a community like this one and hence the reason Maemo has degraded to the point of being extinct soon.

As for meego.... i always knew it would fail.

Are there ANY chances left for Maemo and this community????.

We STILL have our device the N900 !.
 
Radicalz38 is offline Radicalz38
2011-09-29 , 10:19
Posts: 1,042 | Thanked: 430 times | Joined on May 2010
#50
Having/Knowing there's still existing n900's doesn't mean there would still be chances. Devices won't last forever which means n900 users are decreasing day by day. So unless it would increase there would be no chances left.
 
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