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ivanzorkic is offline ivanzorkic
2010-05-01 , 05:34
Posts: 67 | Thanked: 280 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#51
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
@ivanzorkic
downing people for negative comments will get the distinct label of a "fanboy" so please allow critisism among good points especially if its constructive,
I'm no fanboy of any device in particular, I am, however, a fanboy of technology and mobile devices in general, but I think that's ok. Besides, you act as if I 'keep downing people for negative comments'. This is not the case. First of all, this is just one small thread and the first (and probably the last) time I spoke of this issue, and already I am 'a fanboy'. Second - I am NOT against criticism. I am against whining. These are two different things. Someone coming and pointing out a flaw and requesting its fix is fine. To quote myself:

"I would like better google integration, for example, I was also disappointed with Nokia's Ovi treatment of the N900, in fact, I was - and to a degreee, still am - quite angry with it. And I prefer capacitive screens to resistive, as I don't use the stylus."

Now, there are two kinds of criticism on Maemo Talk. The good one which is fine, awesome. In fact, its down right necessary. I've seen several of those on the forums, and I am glad that they exist. Its called FEEDBACK. The developers need it to improve their product. Users should offer it, companies should listen to users or loose them.

I especially dislike it when someone from the 'fanboy camp' comes and bashes the person who gave an objective critique with a comment "We don't need that stuff, its not a phone, go buy an iPhone! You won't be missed". My "favorite" lines from the fanboy camp are "Its a computer, not a phone", "We don't need a mobile version of it, the desktop one works fine" and "I couldn't care less about Nokia and its users" (as in - they shouldn't make it for everyone, they should make it for me!). If there weren't so many whiners, I would've written a post about the "defenders" (as I call them). As it is, they are very much outnumbered.

Now, for fun, I give you two ways to criticize the lack of MMS on the N900.

The good way: "I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that N900 doesn't support MMS. This is a feature I need, and came to expect from modern mobile devices. Why Nokia chose not to implement it is beyond me. Anyone wants to start a petition to request it from Nokia? I am really disappointed with this, if they don't fix it, my next device just might be from a competitor."

The bad way: "This piece of s$%$ doesn't even have MMS and all other smartphones have it even my sisters stupid little phone has it why didn't Nokia put it on the device when all others have it that's it Nokia I'm never buying anything from you again I just got myself the Legend and its much better all of you people who bought N900 made a mistake and you will see"

The first one is constructive and informative. I may or may not agree with it, but it comes down to personal opinions. The second one tries to ruin my experience with the device, it is written in a crybaby tone which irritates the heck out of me and is not constructive, often completely unrealistic, and boring.

Also, no matter what your tone is, criticism should always be based on reality. Claiming that Nokia should set fixed dates for updates and FW releases - something that no company does, and for a good reason too - is unrealistic. Asking for a functional portrait mode in conversations app somewhere down the road (something that I would like VERY much!) - is fine.

Now, you can say that I don't have to read these threads and you are right. But I could also say that no one is forcing anyone to read THIS ONE either. And besides, we get suckered into reading all those in the end and get emotional

Just to point out the obvious again: criticize all you want people! Be fans of quality technology, not of the brand. Be realistic and don't whine. And, most importantly, if you don't like it - tell it to the company that made it, do something, be constructive - or go with a different product next time.
Last edited by ivanzorkic; 2010-05-01 at 05:46.
 

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davbost is offline davbost
2010-05-01 , 05:48
Posts: 90 | Thanked: 22 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ North Carolina, USA
#52
Great post! Thanks!
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-05-01 , 06:17
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#53
Originally Posted by ivanzorkic View Post
I'm no fanboy of any device in particular, I am, however, a fanboy of technology and mobile devices in general, but I think that's ok. Besides, you act as if I 'keep downing people for negative comments'. This is not the case. First of all, this is just one small thread and the first (and probably the last) time I spoke of this issue, and already I am 'a fanboy'. Second - I am NOT against criticism. I am against whining. These are two different things. Someone coming and pointing out a flaw and requesting its fix is fine. To quote myself:

"I would like better google integration, for example, I was also disappointed with Nokia's Ovi treatment of the N900, in fact, I was - and to a degreee, still am - quite angry with it. And I prefer capacitive screens to resistive, as I don't use the stylus."

Now, there are two kinds of criticism on Maemo Talk. The good one which is fine, awesome. In fact, its down right necessary. I've seen several of those on the forums, and I am glad that they exist. Its called FEEDBACK. The developers need it to improve their product. Users should offer it, companies should listen to users or loose them.

I especially dislike it when someone from the 'fanboy camp' comes and bashes the person who gave an objective critique with a comment "We don't need that stuff, its not a phone, go buy an iPhone! You won't be missed". My "favorite" lines from the fanboy camp are "Its a computer, not a phone", "We don't need a mobile version of it, the desktop one works fine" and "I couldn't care less about Nokia and its users" (as in - they shouldn't make it for everyone, they should make it for me!). If there weren't so many whiners, I would've written a post about the "defenders" (as I call them). As it is, they are very much outnumbered.

Now, for fun, I give you two ways to criticize the lack of MMS on the N900.

The good way: "I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that N900 doesn't support MMS. This is a feature I need, and came to expect from modern mobile devices. Why Nokia chose not to implement it is beyond me. Anyone wants to start a petition to request it from Nokia? I am really disappointed with this, if they don't fix it, my next device just might be from a competitor."

The bad way: "This piece of s$%$ doesn't even have MMS and all other smartphones have it even my sisters stupid little phone has it why didn't Nokia put it on the device when all others have it that's it Nokia I'm never buying anything from you again I just got myself the Legend and its much better all of you people who bought N900 made a mistake and you will see"

The first one is constructive and informative. I may or may not agree with it, but it comes down to personal opinions. The second one tries to ruin my experience with the device, it is written in a crybaby tone which irritates the heck out of me and is not constructive, often completely unrealistic, and boring.

Also, no matter what your tone is, criticism should always be based on reality. Claiming that Nokia should set fixed dates for updates and FW releases - something that no company does, and for a good reason too - is unrealistic. Asking for a functional portrait mode in conversations app somewhere down the road (something that I would like VERY much!) - is fine.

Now, you can say that I don't have to read these threads and you are right. But I could also say that no one is forcing anyone to read THIS ONE either. And besides, we get suckered into reading all those in the end and get emotional

Just to point out the obvious again: criticize all you want people! Be fans of quality technology, not of the brand. Be realistic and don't whine. And, most importantly, if you don't like it - tell it to the company that made it, do something, be constructive - or go with a different product next time.
Ok you made some valid points there and i will debate with you a few, the difference between "whining" and constructive critisism coming from a fanboy would be same same (he would say) so anything negative at all said of Nokia can be construed as "whining" (probably not a perfect choice of wording for your thread me thinks ha) so is bound to bring critisism for that word "whining" alone, i personally do not think the fanboy even knows the meaning of FEEDBACK but never mind aye.
Yes it is very true that no company alive could possible give dates for coming updates as it's impossible to see the future (maybe a hazardous guess) so nobody would win on an argument about giving future dates etc.
After reading your posts the actual word WHINING is somewhat deroggative in such that it will itself provoke argument simple because of its negative meaning and this is why i suggest only that maybe a different word would have been more beneficial to read that will not attract negative feeling from the offset.

"I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that N900 doesn't support MMS. This is a feature I need, and came to expect from modern mobile devices. Why Nokia chose not to implement it is beyond me. Anyone wants to start a petition to request it from Nokia? I am really disappointed with this, if they don't fix it, my next device just might be from a competitor."

That bit i got to agree with you on because i can no way agree that Nokia cannot bring out some short and effective fixes for some very important fundarmental issues that all mobile's have nowerdays.
Nokia has indeed got some serious public relation problems and seems to be ignorant of end user, after all they recognised the faults of MMS and things like USSD, did the fix , published the fix in sdk and have not done this as a minor update how very very weird to say the least coming from a BIG company called Nokia.
Petition ? would they even recognise one ha.
Anyhow all thats left to say really is this word "whining" hmmmm very debatable IF you dont want to attract critisism.
OK 99.9% i will give you.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2010-05-01 at 06:21.
 
DoctorA is offline DoctorA
2010-05-01 , 06:45
Posts: 22 | Thanked: 9 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#54
@ivanzorkic-thanks for the thoughtful thread/thoughts on N900. It is more of a smartphone lab experiment dealing with this device and we know this and explore. The only thing I wish it did well out of the box is play nice with bluetooth carkits. In California and many states this is necessary. I did get work around using Petrovich to send contacts via bluetooth to one car but not my other. All other my smartphones play nice with both cars. Hopefully this will be improved with software updates. I sound like a whiner but really do not want to be one so will shut up now.
Thanks,
Doc
 
NokTokDaddy is offline NokTokDaddy
2010-05-01 , 06:46
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 240 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK
#55
Originally Posted by ivanzorkic View Post
.So. Again I ask you how were some users tricked? The N900 promo video shows it running movies, taking photos and skyping. And it does all these things better than market leaders such as iPhone or Android. When you visit the N900 website it says 'mobile computer' and it delivers there too - with desktop grade multitasking and full linux. So, where's the trickery?
The promo video also shows the N900 taking a call neatly whilst performing other tasks.

Yesterday I was proudly giving a little demonstration of 'N900 Multitasking' in the coffee shop to a bunch of interested students. For a while they were amazed as we had multiple apps running simultaneously. We moved on to browsing and, with only ONE app running (MicroB) an incoming call brought my world of faith in N900 crashing down in a sucking whirlpool of crimson humiliation.

The device stalled, crashed and needed a reboot to recover. Not the first timeI've had this, either, and I umderstand I am not alone.

I can accept that the phone features are lacking compared to some other devices. but it is unacceptable and 'Not Fit For Purpose' if the device cannot receive calls.

I have hitherto been an avid N900 supporter - check out my posts. Away from this forum I too have sneered at those who "Whine". but maybe that's because I didn't use certain facilities that much. Featurres like taking calls.

I will await PR1.2 in eager anticipation. I will remain positive, but ultimately I will have to ask myself if there is any sense in keeping a device that supposedly excells at multitasting if it cannot perform the most prime and basic functions one could ask of it.
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-05-01 , 06:49
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#56
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
The device stalled, crashed and needed a reboot to recover. Not the first timeI've had this, either, and I umderstand I am not alone.
Did you immediately start hammering the screen with various and sundry taps?

I know the device has lag but I've never lost a call or had the device put into a state that required a reboot to recover from, much less crash (only thing I've ever had crash was microB, and that with Flash running...)
 

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NokTokDaddy is offline NokTokDaddy
2010-05-01 , 07:04
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 240 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK
#57
@wmarone:

Thanks for the suggestion, but no.

I just tried to accept the call but the page rotated and went blank before I could get to it.

I wasn't even scrolling through text at the time. The page was fully opeened and no other apps, reminders or alarms were concurrent.

I have experienced this on a couple of occasions before, but put it down to running too many apps ( although I never run more than, say six at any time.

I don't have anything from Extras-Dev and I'm not smart enough to run xterm or fly model helicopters whilst hacking Pentagon UFO files.

I just enjoy using N900 for making calls, browsing, using Mauku ( although not at that time) and checking my emails and texts.

Not too much to ask, I hope?
Last edited by NokTokDaddy; 2010-05-01 at 07:07.
 
h3llraz0r is offline h3llraz0r
2010-05-01 , 07:07
Posts: 50 | Thanked: 28 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#58
"I once was lost but now I'm found!"
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-05-01 , 07:11
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#59
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
@wmarone:

Thanks for the suggestion, but no.
It wasn't a suggestion, I was wondering if you weren't overreacting and suddenly hammering the thing with input. I can't say I've ever seen what you've had happen.

For kicks though, you should tone down the UI transitions. I've found that improves responsiveness in everything.
 
Master of Gizmo is offline Master of Gizmo
2010-05-01 , 07:19
Posts: 345 | Thanked: 467 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Germany
#60
Originally Posted by thefoxtrot View Post
Cherish the time when there is still lithium in the earth!

It'll be gone one day.
.
Wrong. There's an incredible amount of lithium in the earth. But noone is using that as it's difficult to extract. Instead the only lithium sources being used today are few higly concentrated lakes of lithium salts. These may indeed be used up, soon. Then people will have to swiitch to other, less concentrated sources. And as long as you can earn money with batteries they'll sure find a way to do so.
 
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