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devu's Avatar
Posts: 431 | Thanked: 239 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ London
#11
This is beautiful:

Over recent years, we have seen the introduction of numerous new technologies and languages that
make applications development a little bit more exciting. Languages such as Python and Ruby have
appeared that, while not necessarily providing groundbreaking features, lend some support to providing
alternative ways to producing software. Ruby on Rails, or RoR, is one such feature that has enabled
developers to produce web - based applications with remarkable speed and ease, making the
development of common application functionality less painful.
This is a great move in the right direction, and many developers have since made the transition to such
languages to further lessen the strain that was ever present with languages such as C++ or Java, but it
doesn ’ t provide a be - all - and - end - all for applications development as it still means having to learn a
new technology. What ’ s more, despite the surge of new technologies that have been appearing, you can
see that they are only really of benefit to desktop or server - side web development, while the client side
for web applications remain firm with Flash, HTML, JavaScript, and VBScript, for the simple reason
that older browser technologies have a greater coverage on users ’ machines. This means that, while we
now have a larger choice of tools for creating our applications, we are perhaps further segregating our
development team members and forcing possible rifts into our software stability and production
timescales.
So why are we suffering these issues and what can be done to dispose of these rifts we keep making for
ourselves while continuing to embrace technology developments? The issues here are not about how
such technologies interact, or about the functionality they provide, but about how we develop for them.
Think about that for a second. If humans, like technology, needed to interact with one another, we
would use an agreed form of communication; written English in the case of this book. If we were to seek
employment in a country whose entire population didn ’ t speak our language, we are sure this would
hinder our progress very much, as it would be hard enough to even convey that we were seeking
employment, let alone be capable of performing many of the available work positions on offer. Yet, in
respect of many programming languages and technologies available, they often communicate very well
with each other using processes of their own, but the way in which we interact with them can be
very diverse.
here is the link to eBook i founded some time ago, good to start with.
 
devu's Avatar
Posts: 431 | Thanked: 239 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ London
#12
One of the greatest contributor for Flash platform half an year ago decided to abandon AS3 as well because of haXe

http://lab.polygonal.de/2009/12/11/updates-3/
 
smoku's Avatar
Posts: 1,716 | Thanked: 3,007 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Warsaw, Poland
#13
Originally Posted by devu View Post
Man.. the reason why my letter is so long is because i wanted to give you wider picture.
You lost me at "Flash is already Open Source solution".
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devu's Avatar
Posts: 431 | Thanked: 239 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ London
#14
Originally Posted by smoku View Post
You lost me at "Flash is already Open Source solution".
To be honest I lost you now ;/ What you mean by this? I haven't seen you on this threat before. If you mean I lost you as potential support I am really sorry for you that didn't read this because this whole thing is no about Flash at all. But about Flash Developers that can go for open source solution haXe and make contribution to even this platform.

Anyway do you thing that would be possible to develop haXe 2 swf compiler if the Flash is no open source? You probably stick to information from years ago. Now everyone can enjoy AS3 written in FlashDevelop and Open Source Flex SDK or even you can go there http://wonderfl.net/ and write your won stuff online. The only think Adobe keeping eye on is Flash Player Distribution license. But Kevin Lynch introduced that to make Flash happens on the mobiles they will remove this restrictions in the future!.

Where the hell you ppl taking in formations from?

Last edited by devu; 2010-05-06 at 06:33.
 
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#15
Flash file *.swf = open source
Flash binary file *.fla = closed source
Flash player client for browser = presently deployed closed source
Flash video file *.flv = open source (it's just a video container for many codecs)

For a clearer picture, read this.

Of note, this part:
The Flash Player itself is not Open Source, though many of the related technologies are....

While fully possible, it's not a trivial thing to create your own Flash Player. Creating just the simplest player that supports a tiny subset of features is hard enough and the Gnash project is the only active effort we know about. This is not because Adobe prevents others from creating their own Flash Player, but rather since it's not a trivial thing to do. In blog comments all over the web, you'll find anonymous trolls that post comments saying that "Adobe's Flash Player sucks", "the Flash Player has a rotten code base" and so on. It's very easy to make such bold statements when you never even read the spec or tried to implement it yourself.
For the record, if I'm not in Adobe Flex (closed source with an open source SDK), I'm in FlashDevelop (open source with open source Flex SDK) and produce my *.swf files for consumption across all platforms that have a Flash player.

In talking about Flash Player alternatives, I remember GlobFX's Swiff Player, a stand alone player that accelerated movies with OpenGL... way back in like 2003 or so, way before bitmap cache acceleration and GPU acceleration in Flash Player 9, 10 and 10.1.

Pertaining the Flash 3D engines, really surprised you didn't go with PaperVision3D. It's built into Electric Rain's Swift3D on output. Which... is pretty darn cool.

Anyway, carry on...
 

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#16
This was the point I stopped reading your post - you're obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
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devu's Avatar
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#17
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Flash file *.swf = open source
Anyway, carry on...
You positively surprised me today

I see the Status Quo of Smoku after red his thread "no to Qt" and now it's all clear for me. You are not such a guy who will be able to break a beauty of pure C++ code be affected by any other stuff on top of that. So you are not the person who would even for a second could help Flash guys with this.

@gerbic what do you think about haXe and this whole concept. I just realized you said somewhere you have Linux experience. Possible? Like it?
 
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#18
Originally Posted by devu View Post
@gerbic what do you think about haXe and this whole concept. I just realized you said somewhere you have Linux experience. Possible? Like it?
I think it's very possible. For instance, Adobe had pursued Adobe Flex 3 on Linux a year ago via Adobe Labs, read more here...

HaXe though, I'm not too sure about. I've only used it for mere moments... it wasn't really for me.

But as it stands, I think that Flash dev on Linux is one of the few things that I'm holding out for. But as it stands, you have the Flex SDK, which is free. There's TextMate, which supports mxml and *.as files. And of course, Flex is Eclipse based, FlashDevelop runs just find under WINE or other virtualization if you're keen to do so.

And don't overlook OpenLazlo. I learned how to code better for Flex 2 via OpenLazlo.
 

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#19
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
And don't overlook OpenLazlo. I learned how to code better for Flex 2 via OpenLazlo.
Hmm. I remember this OpenLaszlo from osFlash.org and it was very promising couple of years ago. But when everyone was about to switch for AS3 they stuck with AS2. From that time I completely forget about it.

haXe I am following this project from 3 years more or less. When they finally step up to AS3. It was still slower on the beginning, but last year they bring a lot improvements. Because I get use to AS3 so much it was hard to change the way to do something so... many attempts and fails. I never had a chance to do something serious, just some experiments. What I miss so much is override method there. And I can't remove from my mind that calling to static classes are slower than instantiated.

But the thing is you telling me about tools how to work with as3 on linux.
What I am asking for is how to use c++ as a result of haXe cross compiler and port it to ARM based Linux. Same way as they did for iPhone.

Thanks for bunch of useful info anyway.




Originally Posted by smoku View Post
This was the point I stopped reading your post - you're obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
yea... thanks anyway

Last edited by devu; 2010-05-06 at 08:30.
 
zwer's Avatar
Posts: 455 | Thanked: 782 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Netherlands
#20
I'm neither - it's quite foolish to tie yourself to one platform/language, whether it's open or not. I've chosen my profession precisely because of that - in IT things can completely change within a year forcing you to learn new stuff, that's what makes it exciting in the first place. When was the last time somebody asked you if you know Fortran? How about COBOL? BASIC, anyone? Pascal? Delphi? VBScript? VRML? DOS? AmigaOS? ... By declaring yourself as a developer for ABC platform and in XYZ language/environment you become a potential dinosaur. If you know what programming is and how any given computer works in a nutshell, languages are a simple task of learning a new syntax, and platforms are a simple task of learning new APIs.

Yes, currently half of my work is on the Flash platform, I've even seen the complete source code of the Flash Player (which in turn prevents me to legally contribute to projects like Gnash) and it's actually not that bad; and as I've stated, if Flash platform is to die out it would be a terrible loss for the interwebs, but I really don't see the point of your lengthy monologue. You mean haXe will save the day? While a noble idea (one language to rule them all) I don't see how it solves issues on both accounts - Linux and Flash development.

First of all, haXe is not Flash - Flash platform is far more than just the ActionScript language. Second, promised portability of haXe is years behind Qt, for example, so why wouldn't you go with Qt if that's your concern? So, what's the reason one should choose haXe? What problem does it solve? Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against haXe, I just don't see what's your point in mentioning it?

And another thing, 1mil+ Flash developers might be a good marketing point, but no more than 1000 of those are actually programmers that are fully aware what are they doing. The vast majority of those developers are actually either designers forced to learn some bits of ActionScript, or so-called script-kiddies that want to make something shiny without regard of performance impact, as fast as possible. And both of those categories are more responsible for giving Flash a bad name than Macromedia/Adobe are themselves. I'd rather have 1000 people that know what are they doing, than 1mil+ essentially clueless self-appointed developers for any given platform/technology.

I wonder if Qole's twit about N900 not getting the FP 10.1 is the culprit for this topic.
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