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un-named_user is offline un-named_user
2010-05-28 , 01:28
Posts: 77 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ T.M.O
#491
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Oh come on. If you're smart enough to get the rest of what you did, then you know full well that "Jobso" is wrong in that he is arbitrarily dismissing choice (with some of the most asinine and disingenuous reasoning I've ever seen in the tech world) and simply jockeying for Apple to be the middleman. With much more disastrous consequences than anything Flash could inflict.
I don't agree with Jobs on all other BS he puts across. I mean blocking Adobe's cross platform tools for developing iPhone apps was f##ked up in all regards. Creating a closed & draconian eco- system is the reason I don't buy his products.

I'm pro choice for media format wars. But, I am severely against one entity controlling the source and dominating. As friendly as Adobe may seem, they really don't care about anything else other than selling more products of their own. If the N900 was selling in huge numbers like Android, they would be falling all over to get Nokia to support it.. Heck probably even doing it for them.

That is why I like the promise of HTML5. Most devices we buy will come with the appropriate codecs. Embed a simple video tag and the users of said devices are good to go. The middle man is removed for all intents & purposes. I'm simplifying here, but you get the idea.

But, I wish H.264 would die too, for it means end of video support in the future for open source projects like Mozilla and others, unless they pony up the cash for the licenses. That's why I'm rooting for Ogg Theora(however lacking it may be right now) or the new WebM project (Google being evil be damned)

The web may be a business, but each and every user should have an equal standing and access to the content, irrespective of the platform they support.

It'll never happen, But one can wish

Note: the only use I see for flash beyond HTML5 video is user interfaces on interactive applets on the web. Sure there are other issues with HTML5, like DRM, etc etc. But the solutions will come with time and I have my fingers crossed

Originally Posted by nosa101 View Post
This is probably the plan and I can perfectly understand why they would go with it. If the user experience is centered around multitouch, i wouldn't want some half baked effort.

Hardware restrictions are a pretty big deal especially if a work around can't be found. The software can only go as far as the hardware lets it go and not the other way around
Agreed, but it reeks of piss poor product management and future outlook/viability then more than anything else.

And I could give Nokia the benefit of the doubt, I really want to considering how I have stayed with them for years as a loyal user. But their history regards upgrade paths makes me not want to


Edit:
Originally Posted by YoDude View Post
The only think that kept me from running through the next CES with "NOKIA SUCKS" painted in big blue letters on my fat naked body was membership in this community or more specifically the Internet tablet Talk forum where I began to appreciate Maemo
+1
I probably wouldn't run shouting anything . But yes, the community is the reason I'm thankful to have bought the N900.
Last edited by un-named_user; 2010-05-28 at 01:34. Reason: addition.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-05-28 , 03:28
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#492
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Let's be real. I know marketing speak when I hear it.
I've heard Nokia accused of a lot of foul things, but marketing hasn't been one of them.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-05-28 , 03:37
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#493
Originally Posted by un-named_user View Post
I'm pro choice for media format wars. But, I am severely against one entity controlling the source and dominating. As friendly as Adobe may seem, they really don't care about anything else other than selling more products of their own.
But-- but-- being "one entity controlling the source and dominating" is exactly what Apple is trying to do by squeezing Adobe out!

This is a no-brainer to me. Apple is trying to create an exclusive neighborhood where they have discretion over who gets in and what gets done. Adobe on the other hand plays very nicely in an inclusive world where exclusivity is in the hands of the individual. Don't like Flash? Simple: don't install the plugin, or use a Flash-blocker. In Apple's inverted version of reality, you don't have that freedom. THEY made the decision for you.

And sure I'm in favor of HTML5. But let it win on its own merits. If it can unseat Flash on those terms, great! Even so, get ready for a long haul.

Everything is evil by degree. I'll take Adobe's evil or Apple's any day.
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YoDude is offline YoDude
2010-05-28 , 04:29
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#494
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
But-- but-- being "one entity controlling the source and dominating" is exactly what Apple is trying to do by squeezing Adobe out!

This is a no-brainer to me. Apple is trying to create an exclusive neighborhood where they have discretion over who gets in and what gets done. Adobe on the other hand plays very nicely in an inclusive world where exclusivity is in the hands of the individual. Don't like Flash? Simple: don't install the plugin, or use a Flash-blocker. In Apple's inverted version of reality, you don't have that freedom. THEY made the decision for you.

And sure I'm in favor of HTML5. But let it win on its own merits. If it can unseat Flash on those terms, great! Even so, get ready for a long haul.

Everything is evil by degree. I'll take Adobe's evil or Apple's any day.
That's the gist of it... Adobe was asleep at the switch and neglected a lot of things for too long. This hurt them by allowing Jobs prophesy to be fullfilled. But Jobs speach was nothing short of a "neaner, neaner, neaner" victory dance that he wouldn'y have done if he didn't have the sales numbers.

The reality is that these same sales numbers will now justify this response by Apple regarding any technology not invented in house. This will happen and it allways does. The bean counters and stock holders will make it so because it now makes economic sense.

Adobe flash will die off eventually but it will not be replaced by anything Apple simply because... it's Apple.

There are some neat things just over the horizon. HTML and new tech will continue to evolve.

When Apple adopts that "in house" philosophy it will be the begining of its end as it will set itself up to be in the position that Adobe is now in. Complacent.
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mrojas is offline mrojas
2010-05-28 , 04:37
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#495
Something to consider in the HTML5 vs Flash issue is not that it should be an issue at all. It isn't like, because a device supports Flash, it stops supporting HTML5/H.264 as well. Both should be supported, because both are used in the real web, and eventually the user will decide which one to pick

Apple doesn't give you that option.
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un-named_user is offline un-named_user
2010-05-28 , 05:23
Posts: 77 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ T.M.O
#496
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
But-- but-- being "one entity controlling the source and dominating" is exactly what Apple is trying to do by squeezing Adobe out!

This is a no-brainer to me. Apple is trying to create an exclusive neighborhood where they have discretion over who gets in and what gets done. Adobe on the other hand plays very nicely in an inclusive world where exclusivity is in the hands of the individual. Don't like Flash? Simple: don't install the plugin, or use a Flash-blocker. In Apple's inverted version of reality, you don't have that freedom. THEY made the decision for you.

...

Everything is evil by degree. I'll take Adobe's evil or Apple's any day.
Newsflash!! They are doing so on their platform and not the web. Plus, they possibly can't control the media on the internet because of H.264 now, can they?

And how hard is exactly not to buy apple then? Let them create an exclusive/closed down neighborhood for all they want. If people/companies don't like it. They won't buy it or move away eventually. I know of enough iPhone to Android converts who wanted to escape Jobso's playground.

As for flash, it is nothing more than a necessary evil.
And what the heck is "Adobe plays very nicely?" Their platform is bloated beyond belief and struggles to get decent performance almost anywhere without beefy hardware specs. Adobe has been unbelievably lazy about Flash player for the Linux platform?? Care to venture a guess why that would be? To me a crappy add-on option is no better than no option.

If you browse the Adobe forums, You will find one class of users who are in the same boat as the N900 users. the Htc HD2 users. Apparently, they were shown a 10.1 demo video too, saying its coming soon. Later it got canned and Adobe's official response was that its not possible cause they mere missing critical APIs in the OS.. Oh Noezzz

Sure, flash may be capable of great & equal performance some day on all platforms. But I'm not sending a bouquet of roses to Adobe till they keep sitting on their asses.

Almost forgot. To me Apple and Adobe are both evil in their own regards. Who is more evil depends on purely what one's expectations are and their requirements.

Complaining about Apple making choices for you as a bad thing when you knowingly buy their products, is the same as that silly thread complaining about the N900 letting people install from Extras-devel.
 
Frappacino is offline Frappacino
2010-05-28 , 08:07
Posts: 619 | Thanked: 691 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#497
come on guys

for n900, when Nokia has a big planned feature they WANT people to know about like QT and QT mobility in n900, they release information and make sure EVERYONE knows it

for n900, when Nokia is silent about a feature, the pattern has been that n900 is NOT getting it. e.g.
- Ovi Maps turn by turn
- Meego
etc...

Guess which one Flash 10 falls into ?

Come on guys, Flash is not coming from Nokia. If it DOES come by some MIRACLE it will be some unofficial hacked version.

You know what ? I bet you when PR1.3 comes around they will release the news in small print that flash 10.1 is not coming.
 
geneven is offline geneven
2010-05-28 , 08:09
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#498
Originally Posted by nosa101 View Post
"Adobe provides a porting kit" =/= "Adobe has provided a porting kit"

Seeing as we haven't heard anything from Micrsoft or Palm, I'm going to guess Adobe hasn't provided this kit yet. Maybe to Google
And the reason Nokia can't say what they will do when and if they receive a porting kit is?
 
jackabite is offline jackabite
2010-05-28 , 08:10
Posts: 46 | Thanked: 17 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#499
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64R1DI20100528

(Reuters) - Nokia sold less than 100,000 top-of-the-range N900 smartphones in its first five months on the market, researcher Gartner said, indicating it has yet to mount a serious challenge to the iPhone and Blackberry.

I can't see Adobe or many other developers bothering with a population that small....
 
nosa101 is offline nosa101
2010-05-28 , 08:15
Posts: 1,667 | Thanked: 561 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#500
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
And the reason Nokia can't say what they will do when and if they receive a porting kit is?
Nokia have nothing to gain from bad mouthing Adobe delays
 
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