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2010-06-02
, 04:42
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#72
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Originally Posted by qgil
BTW There is OpenMoko with Neo FreeRunner
What commercial handsets can you find in a shop more open than the Maemo devices?.
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2010-06-02
, 04:51
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Posts: 234 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#73
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Originally Posted by ZogG
I think there are a lot of things companies need to learn about how to best integrate open source into their business plans. It isn't just Nokia. It is probably a tough job, because open source and traditional business practices haven't generally been compatible with each other. Businesses generally want as much control as possible of their products, where open source often requires that you let go of some of that control.
And i'm not saying it as negative thing, I just say that it's not excuse "we are most open", and still there are a lot of thing Nokia has to learn.
I don't think anyone here thinks that Nokia has been a model citizen in the whole OSS community. At the same time, they have done more than most companies out there to work on going OSS. It probably hasn't been easy on either side of the equation.
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2010-06-02
, 04:52
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#74
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Originally Posted by danramos
If you're going to refer to Ari Jaaksi's infamous quote, it had a larger scope than that. He was referring to a closed (ironically) mindset that keeps Linux from being a greater success, and that was the reluctance to at least meet business halfway and understand profit drivers instead of vilifying them as something inherently evil.
A Nokia exec was even quoted as having said that Linux people need to learn business and accept DRM in Linux--as a reason to exclude OGG. That seems both irrelevant and hypocritical.
Ultimately neither Nokia nor any other company can operate for free. Nokia has decided, wisely IMO, that there's no longer enough value to be found in being an operating system provider. So they will focus on their technological (and hopefully, service) advantages as those profit drivers. If every aspect of hardware is opened, and that hardware becomes commoditized, where does Nokia derive revenue in this space?
Let's see how Pandora fares and then cast stones at Nokia if they are successful.
disclaimer: I would personally love to see mobile computers ultimately commoditized to the point that PCs are. I build all of my PCs.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-06-02
, 06:03
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#75
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gerbick, I'm comparing Nokia with the companies you compare Nokia all the time and with the products available in the shops where you can find Nokia products. If you don't like this comparison please propose another one.
About BME closed, did you go and ask at meego-dev as I proposed to you few days ago when you came with the same point in this forum?
About the MeeGo architecture, http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture shares a lot with Maemo, with Moblin and with other distros. Yet is a stack that it's not Maemo' it's not Moblin, it's not Fedora/openSuSE/Ubuntu/Debian. If you understand a bit about Linux platforms you will see that it's a quite unique and innovative stack having to solve certain problems other distros don't attempt to solve.
And sure, there are plenty of companies and even more individuals and also non-profits contributing LOTS of code and more. I'm not dismissing any of them! I'm just defending that Nokia is one of these organizations, actually contributing a lot. And again, if you go and ask Linux and free desktop developers and maintainers you will see that all in all Nokia gets better than worse feedback about what we do and how we do it.
About the lessons learned, I think in every Maemo iteration there were improvements but there was a structural ceiling barring more significant progress. This is one of the reasons why MeeGo was created, and Nokia is applying the remaining reasons there.
PS: the more you discuss about the MeeGo project the more it makes sense to do it at http://forum.meego.com
About BME closed, did you go and ask at meego-dev as I proposed to you few days ago when you came with the same point in this forum?
About the MeeGo architecture, http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture shares a lot with Maemo, with Moblin and with other distros. Yet is a stack that it's not Maemo' it's not Moblin, it's not Fedora/openSuSE/Ubuntu/Debian. If you understand a bit about Linux platforms you will see that it's a quite unique and innovative stack having to solve certain problems other distros don't attempt to solve.
And sure, there are plenty of companies and even more individuals and also non-profits contributing LOTS of code and more. I'm not dismissing any of them! I'm just defending that Nokia is one of these organizations, actually contributing a lot. And again, if you go and ask Linux and free desktop developers and maintainers you will see that all in all Nokia gets better than worse feedback about what we do and how we do it.
About the lessons learned, I think in every Maemo iteration there were improvements but there was a structural ceiling barring more significant progress. This is one of the reasons why MeeGo was created, and Nokia is applying the remaining reasons there.
PS: the more you discuss about the MeeGo project the more it makes sense to do it at http://forum.meego.com
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2010-06-02
, 06:32
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#76
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Originally Posted by qgil
While here, I don't compare Nokia to anybody else really. What I am asking is that you answer me directly. No more riddles man.
gerbick, I'm comparing Nokia with the companies you compare Nokia all the time and with the products available in the shops where you can find Nokia products. If you don't like this comparison please propose another one.
Just say who you are comparing yourself to. I'm not quite sure how that question is escaping you.
About BME closed, did you go and ask at meego-dev as I proposed to you few days ago when you came with the same point in this forum?
And sure, there are plenty of companies and even more individuals and also non-profits contributing LOTS of code and more. I'm not dismissing any of them! I'm just defending that Nokia is one of these organizations, actually contributing a lot. And again, if you go and ask Linux and free desktop developers and maintainers you will see that all in all Nokia gets better than worse feedback about what we do and how we do it.
Allow me to reiterate my question. When you said that MeeGo/Nokia is "more open than anybody else"... who are you referring to?
PS: the more you discuss about the MeeGo project the more it makes sense to do it at http://forum.meego.com
Thank you in advance.
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2010-06-02
, 06:50
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#77
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Probably he was answering partly to me to. I think it's useless to send us to meego forum, as now we are talikng about nokia meego and maemo, and it touches some aspects of maemo community as well. And as gerbick, i don't see any straight answer or fact, i just see the reflecting answers. As well i would like to here how can people really can be involved in maemo development, and when i talking not about applications, i'm talking about bug fixes(as some code is closed or i had personally met the problem when bug was refused to open as it was mark as fixed, but it's still there), what are the point of bug reports if they are not comming straight and we don't really know if they are fixed, as well i would like to know how community can get the roadmap of development, there are a lot of question people asking at forum everyday and as i saw Nokia if gives answers - it's only to certain questions they want and even than no 100% info.
While here, I don't compare Nokia to anybody else really. What I am asking is that you answer me directly. No more riddles man.
Just say who you are comparing yourself to. I'm not quite sure how that question is escaping you.
With the BME closed, it makes power management for other OS's that I would love to place onto my "open device" just that much more useless because the battery would just plain die.
I don't know where you thought I might have gathered you've dismissed anybody else. In fact... I don't even know where this whole paragraph came from.
Allow me to reiterate my question. When you said that MeeGo/Nokia is "more open than anybody else"... who are you referring to?
I have an account there too. Please answer my question directly.
Thank you in advance.
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2010-06-02
, 06:52
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Joined on
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#78
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Ok, it's obvious you will not answer my question about who you were referring to, and quite honestly I'm not one to fall for marketing speak ad nauseum.
How about this... I'll simplify my question.
MeeGo is wonderful in how it is planned, Nokia is giving to the open source community as much as it is possibly taking away from the community, and above all they are a "well behaved" citizen of the open source community.
Bravo!
But as it stands, MeeGo - a conglomeration of Nokia's Maemo and Intel's Moblin - stands to come out and do quite a few things different than both had before.
Can you detail what is different in regards to prior Maemo and Moblin attempts? That's where people such as myself are lacking a bit of vision in regards to "what's different". Not that I don't know what MeeGo is, nor that I didn't know what Moblin was - hacked it to somewhat run on my OQO 01+ actually but lacked a lot of drivers that would have made it useful for me - but I guess the question you seem to be really overlooking is that marketing speak is a loss here.
We're already here man.
So now, it's specifics that I require. What's so different? Not the whole technical *.deb vs. *.rpm stuff, but how is it different than before to a consumer? What are you comparing it to? Your (Nokia/Intel) prior attempts or something else?
That's where I'm in the dark man. Is that so hard to understand? That's a hurdle that some consumers will have to crest to see what your product will mean to them.
How about this... I'll simplify my question.
MeeGo is wonderful in how it is planned, Nokia is giving to the open source community as much as it is possibly taking away from the community, and above all they are a "well behaved" citizen of the open source community.
Bravo!
But as it stands, MeeGo - a conglomeration of Nokia's Maemo and Intel's Moblin - stands to come out and do quite a few things different than both had before.
Can you detail what is different in regards to prior Maemo and Moblin attempts? That's where people such as myself are lacking a bit of vision in regards to "what's different". Not that I don't know what MeeGo is, nor that I didn't know what Moblin was - hacked it to somewhat run on my OQO 01+ actually but lacked a lot of drivers that would have made it useful for me - but I guess the question you seem to be really overlooking is that marketing speak is a loss here.
We're already here man.
So now, it's specifics that I require. What's so different? Not the whole technical *.deb vs. *.rpm stuff, but how is it different than before to a consumer? What are you comparing it to? Your (Nokia/Intel) prior attempts or something else?
That's where I'm in the dark man. Is that so hard to understand? That's a hurdle that some consumers will have to crest to see what your product will mean to them.
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2010-06-02
, 06:53
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#79
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Originally Posted by ZogG
I guess so... but he still used my name without fully answering my single question.
Probably he was answering partly to me to
So again... who are you comparing yourselves to?