The charger chip will do so automatically, BME doesn't magically grant the ability to charge.

How so?

Do explain?

Err, IIRC it was the touchscreen drivers, and just because they've been removed doesn't mean they're 100% gone (unless you think they went and retroactively purged them.)

Well, this one has been "fixed"

Ah, open-source DSME...

That's right! We'll remove all the useful code (what is it now in Fremantle you ask? A glorified app launcher, that's what) and move it to MCE (we're still keeping that closed, BTW).

Not on the 770, N800 or N810.

But doesn't the BME provide the OS with the ability to manage power more efficiently and to know when the tablet or phone is nearly out of power?

A side-effect of this component/compliance gerrymandering is that at this point Fremantle is MeeGo compliant, too. Kind of funny, eh ?

Dave,

Before I get into it, I'd just like to thank you for your reasoned, and well written reply. I don't fully agree with you, but well, life would be boring if we all got on.

The 'open' there that I was using was that the code is available, as a whole, which, as far as I know is being stuck to fairly rigorously for all released components so far.

How open MeeGo is in practice (that is, as an organisation, and as a whole) is a bit of a different story, and not one I want to pass judgement on yet. But if they prove to not be living up to the speak, then by all means.

Personally, I see no problem with this idea. If you want to use the naming, then you have to avoid fragmentation, and be as identical as possible. If you don't want to use the naming, do whatever you want. That sounds like a sensible enough aim.

What I don't agree with in that respect is that the compliance story isn't open to community input, despite repeated requests, from people like yourselves, and I think that deserves a lot more scrutiny.

Have you brought this up somewhere? Not specifically this decision, but this issue, that architecture choices should probably be explained and reasoned?

Not that it may make much difference *at this stage*, because as you rightfully point out, there are a few people making the decisions - but process would be nice.

And yes, I fully believe that there is probably room for political manoeuvring in those discussions. To believe that politics has no place whatsoever in technical decisions is a pretty naive thing, so I won't go there.

The development for that release was done entirely behind closed doors. That the components in it weren't chosen by the community should not come as a surprise.

That Banshee and Evolution are included should also be no surprise, given the Netbook release is pretty much Moblin with a few bits tacked on, just like I rather expect the handset release will be a new Maemo frontend+apps tacked on to a frankenstein Moblinish base.

For the record, I'd also like to say that I think this is - if anything - a good thing. It means that hopefully all isn't lost with regards to toolkit co-compatibility and we're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Qt is great, and it's nice to have an officially sanctioned platform for reasons of educating newer developers, etc - but choice is a powerful and important thing. (and if anything, I'm biased, by beng both a hobby and professional Qt guy)

Though I think it's unrealistic to expect documentation on the choices made for 1.0 (realistically, a lot of that is going to be "this is working so let's use it" and so on), I'd say this is something that needs discussing, through the proper channels - not here. Not sure what they are for this kind of case, though. dev list? TSG?

Well, I've seen some of the replies of old forum posters and developers, so I thought I'd bring in the view of a regular Joe.

Please excuse Regular Joe, he's a bit unpolished.

Great. Hey, I'm happy for you. You do realize that I don't see them, since I don't run MeeGo. Great for marketing, though.

When do you expect to see unstable M5 bugfix releases?

I know that M6/Meego is Nokia's future, but I'd give it all for a nice feature pack for N900. I don't know what I'll be running in a year.

*raises hand*

Someone had to say it. Regular Joe is here to take one for the team.

"Why?", you ask in my imaginary world.

Here you go: Imagine you and a few friends go up and build this awesome treehouse. Complete with painted "No girls allowed" sign, windows, the works. It will be your masterpiece.

You cash in your allowance for the next 6 months, buy the wood, and you and your friends start building. In a couple of months, they show up with what they have done for you open platform -er- treehouse. We all happily build the doors, while someone brings over an old fridge to keep juice in, which was deemed too much by Dad, who thought MMS would be too much. I mean fridge, fridge would be too much. For the treehouse.

About a quarter way through the build, Jim, the neighbor kid comes over the fence and says that he's building an even bigger house, and his dad, let's call him -say- Intel, is helping him build it. They all go over the other side and happily start helping.

Sure some of them come over from time to time, buy/make all the nice stuff will be in the bigger house, and you can't build an even bigger house because your platform is now old, with design limitations. Plus, you've spend your money on wood and his house is all carbon fiber.

With time, they either bring stuff over that is temporary, meant for Jim's house once it's done, or they stop bringing it over and saving it. Also, they help halfheartedly, some too tired from working over the fence.

What's worst is not that by the time your house is done it will be old. It's not that theirs will be bigger and finished first. What really hurts is that at the rate they help, it might never be finished.

Jim is not my enemy because I don't make enemies over tree houses, platforms or versions. But if I just moved Jim to the top of my list out of spite.

Maybe it will go away if I'm allowed in his cool new treehouse and abandon my pile of wood. I'm having a hard time forgetting Jim put up an official sign that I'm not allowed in. I hope my relation will warm up.

Didn't Maemo say the exact same thing, before not needing me any more? Wasn't N900/Fremantle the best and opennest yet, a promise for the future, a look up, etc?

Doesn't that mean that if I do help, the next version will need me because it will be the opennestestest?

Also, I think you misspelled Nokia. It's not Meego that needs me, it's Nokia that needs me. As it needed me to believe in a platform, purchase it, and then close my suggestion as DONTCARE when I wanted a feature that helps me manage my contacts (number labels), keep track of birthdays (age after name), set alarms (not on day before for birthdays).

All of those are non-ridiculous, easy to fix stuff my 7650 did in 2002. Or was it the 7110? I'm pretty sure 7110 had age after name in 1999. "It was announced in February 1999 and released in October 1999[2]. Nowadays, it has achieved cult status and is considered to be one of the most stylish cellphones ever made".

I don't recall Nokia needing me to believe in that phone.

What you need is more people who believe in the platform (no matter what you make of it), believe in the release (until it gets changed), and keep believing. I agree completely. You need more of THOSE people. I wish you luck, those people are hard to find, especially since you don't pay them, they pay you.

If Contacts is bound by Nokia internal todo list, and Meego is bound by its internal todo list, what exactly do you need me for? Stand outside and project my support with a sign not caring what's on it?

I swear, if it wasn't so bitter I'd have it as a signature: I believe in OS 2006 (crossed out) OS 2007 (crossed out)
OS 2008 (crossed out) Maemo 5 (crossed out) Maemo 6 (crossed out) MeeGo (crossed out) Whatever comes after that!

(I had to break the post)

Exposed <> open, supported, documented, backwards of forward compatible.

Also, you say it like it's a good thing. What exactly does the above mean to me, the end-user?

That is an incredibly specific question. Bugs.maemo.org has a few answers of regressed functionality, but my focus is on the specific of the question.

Maemo has the same design guidelines as Maemo, and things that didn't work in M5 will keep on not working in M6. Reversing the statement and saying that what worked in M5 will work in M6 isn't adding value to the statement.

Additionally, while some people are upset about not getting M6 or whatever they are upset about, what I have a problem with is the apparent shift in development effort.

I know you fixed 100 bugs in M5 1.2, but out of those about 5 affected me and about 2 annoyed me. Outside those, I have about 20 others that annoy me, varying from WONTFIX to "NEW".

2 bugs in 6 months, and now the focus shifts? I'm worried.

----

In closing, I'd like to state that I am aware I'm bitter. I am not a chronically bitter man. But things have been going from bad to worse.

I was pretty down with the litany of missing stuff from PR 1.0 and PR 1.1. I am not an expert, but people here on the forums, some old developers, lament the closed source, curse the manuals and some have even abandoned their applications in frustration, tired of guessing DBus, having packages break compatibility and lack of fixes.

And on top of that, every time I let out a scream and rant there's always someone who's been here through other OS releases saying this has happened again.

Want to cheer me up? Fix a bug in an application, release an update in -devel for that application so I feel like *someone* is actually working for me.

Even more? I waited months for that app store. I'm ashamed to even bring it up. Look over the fence. 150.000 apps and growing! Five million downloads! Me? I have 20 apps, 5 nice, with one being Fennec.

I thought my phone was broken when I saw a 1967 cartoon episode FOR SALE. And a desktop background! For sale!

What, Google Images broken?

I think the legacy support and evolution for the iphone OS is something to be applauded but I figure Nokia cant be bothered to create a device that would compel people to buy it on its hardware specs alone.

Its back to smash, grab and run with the money and move onto a new area with respect to the clueless mass market. Cowboy builders use the same approach.