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2010-06-17
, 10:11
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Posts: 4,274 |
Thanked: 5,358 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Looking at y'all and sighing
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#182
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Sure... but MeeGo is all about the Qt. Like I said, it's a good choice: I bet MeeGo will gain more developers for this fact.
Out of curiousity, if there was a plain-GTK implementation and a libhildon on top, in MeeGo, would you be more interested?
GTK would never reach the level of integration in MeeGo that it has in Fremantle. This is why my interests lie in Fremantle and not MeeGo.
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2010-06-17
, 10:30
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#183
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Originally Posted by Benson
On a side note, this is a two edged sword. This means that there will not be a single OMAP3 'real' MeeGo device, which casts certain shadows on the N9's future. It could help A LOT if somebody official dropped in a future-proofing guarantee or two around release time. What I'm saying is that, from a MeeGo aspect, the N900 and the N9 aren't that much different, not only hardware, but software-wise, either. You will never be able to OTA the N9 to the next version of MeeGo, and, from what is known currently, has the same stance on drivers and closed components as Fremantle (if you can't wrap your head around this, think about it as Maemo 6 and it will be clearer), so I can already envision stskeeps doing an "N9 hardware adaptation project for MeeGo". This has to be handled from day 1 of the N9 - the Maemo missteps were bad, but given the N9's 'mainstream' goal, questions of this magnitude CANNOT be left to the community.
[*]The N9 (or whatever the first Meego device is -- I'll call it N9 here), by all (unconfirmed) leaked reports, is an OMAP3, and specifically an OMAP3640 -- essentially identical to the N900's OMAP3430, but with a process shrink and higher clocks. While this similarity doesn't necessarily make it legal to procure a copy of Nokia's Harmattan release for the N9, mash it up with the latest hackers-only N900 build, and come up with what amounts to a Harmattan-N900 build, I think it will make it technically straightforward, and going from there to legal will only require Nokia to make some closed components redistributable to owners of previous Nokia devices, not open-source or even globally re-distributable -- much easier to push through.[/list]
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to attila77 For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-06-17
, 10:31
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Posts: 1,309 |
Thanked: 1,187 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
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#184
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Originally Posted by qwerty12
Yes. Otherways seemingly intelligent people love Apple products. Adult, thinking and functioning people believe in God. I am sure they could make you reconsider Qt.
...after my recent posts?
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2010-06-17
, 10:56
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Posts: 540 |
Thanked: 387 times |
Joined on May 2009
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#185
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@volt
And otherwise intelligent people believe in picking one library and running with it.
Why can't we have both?
The argument over inclusion of qt vs gtk is arbitrary.
And I forsee down the road the libraries merging (in several decades).
From a development perspective, should a developer have to learn a new language every time something new comes along? No. We left that "new language of the day" mess in the 80s.
Of course my beef with it, is that Nokia isn't using stock qt, they decided to add in their tweaks/"enhancements".
There are two distinct groups of developers at work here: the coders, writing software from scratch for a platform; and the porters, trying to get existing software working on another platform.
The coders have to adapt and learn to code in a new language or an existing language that has been modified.
The porters have to try and remedy dependency hell.
And yet "we're moving to qt. deal with it" is a good argument, how?
After so many people have learned to deal with Maemo's push for gtk*+hildon, you just want to lead them down another dead-end path?
And otherwise intelligent people believe in picking one library and running with it.
Why can't we have both?
The argument over inclusion of qt vs gtk is arbitrary.
And I forsee down the road the libraries merging (in several decades).
From a development perspective, should a developer have to learn a new language every time something new comes along? No. We left that "new language of the day" mess in the 80s.
Of course my beef with it, is that Nokia isn't using stock qt, they decided to add in their tweaks/"enhancements".
There are two distinct groups of developers at work here: the coders, writing software from scratch for a platform; and the porters, trying to get existing software working on another platform.
The coders have to adapt and learn to code in a new language or an existing language that has been modified.
The porters have to try and remedy dependency hell.
And yet "we're moving to qt. deal with it" is a good argument, how?
After so many people have learned to deal with Maemo's push for gtk*+hildon, you just want to lead them down another dead-end path?
__________________
{ https://sites.google.com/site/maemo4repo/home }
{ https://sites.google.com/site/maemo4repo/home }
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2010-06-17
, 11:41
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Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
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#186
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Originally Posted by qwerty12
FWIW, (as I've extended the invitation elsewhere) - I'm more than happy to help you - or anyone else - learn. Just try things, ask questions, and we'll get there. I have a wide base of skills, but a lot of it centres around Qt, so use what I have.
Nah, I wanted to like Qt but I just couldn't get my head around the way it does things.
I don't have as much time as I used to, but if tutorials would help you, then ask for specific topics, and I'm happy to look at working on that.
Originally Posted by qwerty12
I'm in the same boat, but on the opposite side of the river. I have no CS degree, and I can't even tell you what 8 x 8 is without resorting to a calculator, yet I can code. Life's weird
Even I can't deny the influx of new, proper (no, I do not consider myself to be one. My math skills are non-existent and I have no CS degree. Still, I find some solace in the fact that I've made programs to do things that others could not figure out how to do) developers that are using Qt.
__________________
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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2010-06-17
, 11:43
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Posts: 219 |
Thanked: 94 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Helsinki, Finland
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#187
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Originally Posted by bugelrex
That's what Samsung is doing. Putting out Android phones while trying to get their Bada platform finalized and decent developer support for that.
Mind you, the new management may go for Android for the 'quick fix'
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Ham > Turkey
Ham > Turkey
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2010-06-17
, 12:04
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Posts: 1,309 |
Thanked: 1,187 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
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#188
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Originally Posted by linuxeventually
Well, from that point of view, maybe what "they" would need to talk to qwerty12 about is more along the lines, "while we're building the frameworks around Qt, you're still free to...". It's not like they're blocking anyone from setting up alternative libraries and frameworks. (?) I know they don't want to push away apt loving people, and they surely don't want to push away gtk loving people... They just have to focus on one way to go. They've been encouraging people to move on to Qt. Not forcing.
@volt
And otherwise intelligent people believe in picking one library and running with it.
Why can't we have both?
(...)
And yet "we're moving to qt. deal with it" is a good argument, how?
My point is, though, I believe Nokia should have a brainstorming session around how to make long-time resource people @ maemo.org stay resource people, short term and long term. Or they could start a meego community from scratch and see how long that takes. It's not like Android has a head start...
Oh wait.
Edit: I am sorry that I keep writing names with no capital letters with capital letters.
Last edited by volt; 2010-06-17 at 12:07.
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2010-06-17
, 12:18
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Posts: 4,274 |
Thanked: 5,358 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Looking at y'all and sighing
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#189
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w00t, thank you. Who knows, I might just take you up on that
volt, I don't want this to be about me. My inability to use Qt is just that - my inability. I'm not blind; I can see that most new Maemo contributors are using Qt so something about it must be easier.
Believe it or not, I find Autotools (yes, Autotools!) easier to qmake despite qmake being a lot more simpler and, essentially, doing the same thing. I've managed to make quite a few GObjects during my time (and even managing to export them over D-Bus. Though, after seeing how much easier it is to do the same in Qt...). I've gotten used to it. It wasn't like this in the beginning, though but the way it worked clicked to me. I wish I could say the same looking at Qt code, but, again, it's my problem.
For every one contributor liking GTK, there's 10 more using Qt so, no, my coming or going makes no difference. I want to get back to Nokia's problems*!
EDIT: *I still stand behind #174.
Last edited by qwerty12; 2010-06-17 at 13:01.
volt, I don't want this to be about me. My inability to use Qt is just that - my inability. I'm not blind; I can see that most new Maemo contributors are using Qt so something about it must be easier.
Believe it or not, I find Autotools (yes, Autotools!) easier to qmake despite qmake being a lot more simpler and, essentially, doing the same thing. I've managed to make quite a few GObjects during my time (and even managing to export them over D-Bus. Though, after seeing how much easier it is to do the same in Qt...). I've gotten used to it. It wasn't like this in the beginning, though but the way it worked clicked to me. I wish I could say the same looking at Qt code, but, again, it's my problem.
For every one contributor liking GTK, there's 10 more using Qt so, no, my coming or going makes no difference. I want to get back to Nokia's problems*!
EDIT: *I still stand behind #174.
Last edited by qwerty12; 2010-06-17 at 13:01.
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2010-06-17
, 12:55
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#190
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Originally Posted by qwerty12
http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/mee...ne/003201.html might interest you then.
Sure... but MeeGo is all about the Qt. Like I said, it's a good choice: I bet MeeGo will gain more developers for this fact.
GTK would never reach the level of integration in MeeGo that it has in Fremantle. This is why my interests lie in Fremantle and not MeeGo.
EDIT: Above is Hildon 2.2.19 built for MeeGo, against stock GTK+.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
Last edited by Stskeeps; 2010-06-17 at 12:59.
"Nokia has a strong community. But the biggest failure could be, they don't ask or doesn't matter. Their staff seems to use other devices or the N900 only in development environments." (only for all who are interested, I wouldn't repeat the list here) - It will not change anything, but please vote if you care about one of the Bugs...
And I added a additional one in the small hope we could get the good Idea of a community Brainstorm system working again: #10687 (at the moment it is more like a storage siding - "move it there and shut up")