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Firefox with Leste (10)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 3 days, 6 hrs ago - more...
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2010-08-14
, 15:56
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Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#42
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Let's also not forget that Google are no longer worthy of blind faith support.
When Google do wrong they should be brought to account, same as any other company. I'm no fan of software patents and hope they no longer exist in future but copyright is another matter and Google are most likely bang to rights here, otherwise Oracle wouldn't be going down this route. They're not stupid or desperate, like SCO.
I also think this case will have little if any bearing on other companies and their continued or future use of Java (unless they choose to copy the Java documentation and code while trying to pass it off as their own, of course).
When Google do wrong they should be brought to account, same as any other company. I'm no fan of software patents and hope they no longer exist in future but copyright is another matter and Google are most likely bang to rights here, otherwise Oracle wouldn't be going down this route. They're not stupid or desperate, like SCO.
I also think this case will have little if any bearing on other companies and their continued or future use of Java (unless they choose to copy the Java documentation and code while trying to pass it off as their own, of course).
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2010-08-14
, 16:01
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#43
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Originally Posted by maluka
I understand. Personally, I'm just trying to understand the situation with as little bias as possible and not refuting your claim of rampant tribalism so common on these matters.
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.
When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.
It's so hard to pin down universal ideas of good/evil/right/wrong, though I think that even if you were to use Microsoft's name in the place of Google, I would draw the same conclusions. This act seems like a cash-grab and counter to the cooperative spirit that drives computer science. But this perspective is from a position of ignorance on the matter. I don't know much about the law nor the philosophies of various software practices.
Anyway, it is quite interesting, and I'm interested to see how it turns out.
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2010-08-14
, 16:11
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Posts: 1,224 |
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Joined on Jul 2007
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#44
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Originally Posted by maluka
The Microsoft suit was mostly about Trademarks. Since Google named their VM Davlik and not JVM, it is irrelevant.
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.
When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.
Can you actually point to Android fanboys defending patents?
__________________
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
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2010-08-14
, 16:25
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Joined on Feb 2010
@ blah blah
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#45
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Originally Posted by maluka
Well I think this is the point of all love/hate/right/wrong/be good/don't be evil stuff....
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.
When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.
Microsoft epically sucks for a long time, and it's easy to hate them, they constantly lack fanboys, although half of the world is using their systems. That's the flaw in their corporate strategy - they need fanboys to stand for them like Google's, Apple's (and Nokia's) stand for their respected masters.
As posted before, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10961776 shows what Google really is... just another big giant corporation, prone to evilness as any other.
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2010-08-14
, 16:28
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#46
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Originally Posted by Matan
The Sun vs Microsoft case was really about protecting Java since Microsoft wanted to subvert the standard - call it trademarks but really it was about avoiding a split in Java and the philosophy of write once run anywhere. To some degree the same applies here with Oracle vs. Google - Dalvik may potentially subvert (or at least steal mind share from) Java Mobile Edition on phones and according to Oracle it seems to be doing so by using Oracle patents and copying Oracle code/documentation.
The Microsoft suit was mostly about Trademarks. Since Google named their VM Davlik and not JVM, it is irrelevant.
Originally Posted by Matan
No need to defend any patents as this case is also about copyright as well as patents. Google shouldn't apply double standards by using copyright law to defend it's own assets when (allegedly) also copying the assets of others.
What is the relvance of patents to Google's C&D letters which are solely about copyrights?
Can you actually point to Android fanboys defending patents?
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2010-08-14
, 16:35
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Posts: 992 |
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Joined on Jun 2010
@ Low Earth Orbit
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#47
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Originally Posted by gerbick
But could it explain why their S40/S60 phones have java? Hmm.
This sorta could explain why Nokia avoided Java in Maemo 5. Hmm...
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2010-08-14
, 16:43
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Posts: 741 |
Thanked: 900 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Auckland NZ
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#48
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Originally Posted by kureyon
Exactly why Google needs Symbian since it is 100% open source and supports Java apps without a VM.
But could it explain why their S40/S60 phones have java? Hmm.
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2010-08-14
, 16:45
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#49
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Originally Posted by kureyon
I suspect the decision not to support Java on Maemo only became an official/concious decision once Qt became the official platform of choice for high end devices - prior to the purchase of Trolltech there just weren't the resources to get Java on to the first Maemo devices, and once Qt was chosen then supporting Java (even with Qt/Java bindings) became less important.
But could it explain why their S40/S60 phones have java? Hmm.
Highly doubt it was anything to do with legal issues since as you point out Java was already available on lower end Nokia/Symbian devices.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2010-08-14 at 16:49.
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2010-08-14
, 16:47
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#50
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Originally Posted by maluka
eh?
supports Java apps without a VM.
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When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.