I dunno about that.. This is a community after all. If someone comes here wondering if the N900 is right for them and one of their key things is Exchange Provisioning... I think it would be right to tell them most certainly not....

Whether or not the N900 is a "puddle" is going to depend largely on your use-case scenario.. and if someone isn't sure - we should be able to discuss that here.

Unfortunately, in our current state, we can't.. because no one remains logical. To many just go "No, the N900 sucks, get android - it's gods gift to your manhood. Your wife will thank you." and too many "Yes, the N900 is the most shiney device in the world. Who cares if it won't do half what you want, you'll be distracted by shininess!"..

So, while I disagree with your point on principal.. it's unfortunately true through practice .

That is the dream not the reality.

I am sorry you have had a bad day and I do appreciate anybody who helps anybody support, programs or otherwise. But in my own way I also like to think I work for the greater good. Anyone who buys the device regardless will probably be less inclined to write negative buyers posts as well.

@fatalsaint
I'm just thinking that why on earth I would go to android forums to ask if its right device for me? I might ask that is it able to do X or Z but asking directly opinion from biased place is just well imo stupid and waste of time.

Because if I want to know how good a phone is.. talking to people who actually have one is the best way to do it, IMHO. Granted I wouldn't phrase it like that (is it right for ME?) - I would ask what people like and dislike about that phone.

There are many threads covering that on this forum already though, so new ones are unnecessary. Linking them to a different one would be helpful.

The sentence was:

Here is, a community website.

It makes perfect sense to go to a community forum about the software and hardware, when you have trouble with it. It is perfectly valid to raise public awareness on a community site.

That is either before or after you've contacted Nokia.

Seems to me rather you're using that as an excuse to not have certain aspects discussed. As I said, if you not wish to participate in certain threads, you can

1) ignore them
2) ignore the posters/people
3) ask a moderator to step in

A moderator can also merge threads about the same subject, close topics, or direct people to existing threads. Simply banning is a rather childish option, and it leads too quickly to censorship removing discussions about issues users care about, but ones the hardcore community members have already hashed through tons of time. On some Usenet groups this works rather well, btw. If I see slender saying:

It sounds to me he wants certain things not discussed here. I already see it before me: Talk about lack of USB-OTG on TMO? Verboten.

However, discussing about it in every thread (like christexport did with portrait mode) is the other extreme. These threads should be moderated and centralized in 1 single thread. You can then easily ignore the thread or subject . The fact something is discussed a lot perhaps is a rough indication of the communities interest. The amount of people who care about a particular, specific problem is OTOH rather small. Perhaps that makes you feel underrewarded. Truth is, you do very good contribution for that individual. The amount of posts in another thread isn't your concern, and the subjects discussed neither. Let them be.

There is a lot one can do about it.

1) Raise public awareness.
2) Think about solutions to problem.
3) Sue them.

I don't! MeeGo offers far more features etc. I'm not complaining about that; I accept MeeGo is community-supported on N900.

My concern is that a vendor should supply support for the product they release. It is that simple!! It isn't too much to ask for that.

Seems we expect and have different demands from Nokia though...

i would say the noise level on the forum shot up for two reasons.

1. nokia made the n900 a phone. the resulted in way more non-geeks taking a interest.

2. maemo5. it is one one device only, have now a hevy focus on qt and is a different ui concept then the older devices. this has basically divided the community as dual developing a program becomes a pain. That nokia handed out device to the most active devs and then went meego didnt help.

we are right now basically headless chicken, running in circles.

File this under: "We don't know what we got 'till it's gone"...

It is the community, we are the community, and for good or ill, this community is greater than the sum total of all it's parts. Because of that, removing one "ill" part may in fact have the unintended consequence of actually reducing the total "good" that this community provides.

I participate in one of the threads fatalsaint speaks of, and it is wonderful thing. In that thread I am seeing development of an app occur in real time on this forum with input and feedback contributed from around the world. Not in IRC or over mailing lists but in this forum, one post at a time.

Thank you for using these boards fatalsaint. This is how some have envisioned this forum all along. It is also what I believe is this forums future.

Thank you also to the folks who stayed out of that thread because they didn't have anything positive to contribute. It allowed the posts in that thread to be as productive as they could be and kept the thread on task. I look forward to incremental improvements in that app every day.

I also participate in one of, if not the most nonsensical of all threads found in these forums. I initially did so months and pages after that thread first appeared because I felt some of the same frustrations that Sopwith seemed to identify with in his opening. These frustrations as well as seeing that dang thread pop up in "New Posts" every other day eventually caused me to snap.

I posted a rather terse reply directed at the creator of that nonsense thread and I wasn't particularly proud of one of the statements I made. It was quite rude and it went over like a lead balloon. That thread kind of died and I felt my post killed it... That is until Danramos posted a reply.

Thank you Dan! Your ability to inject humor into a situation where I was certainly ashamed of my response, was like a breath of fresh air. The cloud of guilt over my head lifted as that thread became a humorous satire of it's own dang self. I also now look forward to seeing that thread pop up from time to time because of the entertainment it now provides.

A community needs to be productive and provide enjoyment for those participating. We also can not shy away from saying the things that sometimes need to be said. However, once that bell has been rung, continuing to ring it is not so enjoyable to others. Regardless of the tone it sounds.

A community also needs to grow but Ah, there is the rub. How can it grow if Maemo is "dead"?

For one thing the devices aren't dead. Not by a long shot. The 770 evolved into a portable network management tool. The N800/10's are evolving into handy portable devices that run many alternative OS's with most of the hardware capabilities that more modern devices have. Some of these alternatives are still in development. Being able to check out the latest builds of some of these alternative OS's is certainly worth getting a new battery and MMC for my N810.

With it's FM transmitter, ample storage and indexing capabilities, somewhat open (and also confusing ) MAFW, my N900 is evolving into a personal, portable, and flexible music server of both live music streams and stored music files of all flavors.

If we see the same effort that was put into pyRadio put into clients of some of the new video services like Crackle and LiveStream, I don't see why the same could not be said about the N900 for video too. BTW, many of these video services are just now becoming available on the web, the N900 was always capable and has been waiting for quite some time now.

And just like the FM transmitter i2c-adapter, Nokia doesn't exactly provide support. The information is out there though, it is just taking some time to digest. This community will provide the support. Nokia has provided the means.

These Maemo devices never could do all of the things all people want. What they can do though is some things, perhaps even only one thing, better than anything else out there.

These devices are not where the future growth of this community lies. It lies in the culture that this community has fostered since its beginnings.

With the advent of QT, and more and more tools available for development platforms other than Linux, new members will come. They certainly will be looking for a culture to latch on to.
(BTW, free and open source development platforms are nice and all but for someone who has invested time, talent, and educational energy in another platform, FOSS can be just as big of a barrier to overcome as proprietary software is.)

If we promote our culture and provide an environment were productive development, cutting edge, humorous, popular, unpopular, and even asinine salon opinion coexist; we will grow.

If not, the lights will go out and some of us will drift off and perhaps latch on to whatever else is out there. In doing so I'm afraid we may come to the realization that although this community also didn't do everything everyone wanted... it did do some things better than anything else out there.

I would like to apologize to everyone for starting this thread. I know it is not an excuse, but emotions in the midst of recent events got the better of me. I am also sorry for the name-calling which was entirely unnecessary and undeserved.

My intention was not to start a discussion, but to invite people to STOP other discussions that I found disruptive at the time. This was obviously NOT the way to achieve the desired effect, and I know it very well. As a result we got a pitiful thread with an embarrassing topic. I also see that some respectable community members have left good thoughts here, but I wish that their effort had gone elsewhere.

Since I cannot undo this thread, I would instead request that it is either merged to one of the other whiny threads or better closed, if possible. At the least, don't let it stay active by posting (or thanking) here.

I apologize once again.

PS. An interesting discussion about the community and Maemo from people with real contributions is here:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817271

I disagree... but I promise not to call you a name because of that.

No need to appologize, many yet to read this thread may identify with your frustration and perhaps a consensus will be achieved.

Once the bell has been rung, it is hard as hell to unring the sucker.

Besides, threads take on a life of their own and often lead to a positive outcome.

Agreed with YoDude (who reminds us that he is in fact not The Dude), I'm not sorry it exists. Despite the "whining" about my own "whining" and the misinterpretation of pointing out what I like about my experiences with my Droid, dislike about the N900 that prevents me from moving past my N800, and my generally unhealthy disregard for all things Apple (after all, they HAVE to have done some things right, no?), I appreciate threads like this because they continue to throw up challenges to the Maemo community to improve, even if they feel like sand in your shoe (or underwear sometimes).

Thanks, btw, for pointing out my flair for the simultaneously absurd in the middle of a good conversation. I do believe that disagreements are an absolutely necessary evil and that they're absolutely healthy to have so long as they're not taken too seriously. Everyone here is a friend (yes, even Slender!) and sometimes the sharpness of the critique needs a little soft pillow fight to help bring everyone back to the fact that we're all here to be part of the same group that probably likes (or liked, as the case may be) something about Maemo. I think sometimes people forget that.

Anybody who actually knows my experience will have known that I still have ALL of those here in my room (my Atari 400 is literally RIGHT behind me on my right, and it was my first computer). On rare occasion, I STILL fire up the old stuff for nostalgic reasons--I just think it might be a shame to see that Maemo might end up becoming nothing more than nostalgia with far fewer years under its belt. I challenge Maemo to improve (despite being dead now.. there HAVE been reports of ZOMBIE OS's that just refuse to die, even after being shot in the head like the ol' Commodore, Amiga, Atari 8-bit, ST/STe/TT/Falcon, etc). Even if it doesn't, I'm sticking around to see what happens and whether Nokia (or SOME company) might win me back. Sure, I like my Android but I have to remind you that it's still just a phone that happens to do more than I'd expected. I loved my N800 because it was a computer first... and NOT A PHONE AT ALL. And I loved that.

If I could award YoDude with some extra karma and a ++ to follow it for that last long post, I would. Thanks!