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maluka |
2010-09-17
, 17:12
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Posts: 741 |
Thanked: 900 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Auckland NZ
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#21
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Originally Posted by casper27
Oh the good old days
Unfortunately the N900's existence is a fact. 
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2010-09-17
, 17:15
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Posts: 381 |
Thanked: 847 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
@ Helsinki
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#22
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Originally Posted by sjgadsby
The priority will obviously be in keeping things running (preventive maintenance, as you say). But we're also interested in moving things forward, enabling things like the proposed donations framework for Downloads, SSO and better integration between TMO and the rest of the maemo.org community infra.
I'm interested discovering more detail on what work Nemein can be asked to perform. I anticipate that Nokia funding will be provided at preventative maintenance levels, but it will be good to have that clarified.
We're also doing development tasks on the MeeGo/Harmattan side of things, with some of those things also trickling back to maemo.org. For example, MeeGo wants to have a similar setup as the Maemo Social News system, and any improvements we do to that will benefit both.
Originally Posted by sjgadsby
Yep, and the new structure should make that easier. Maemo.org has always been developed with quite an open model and that should definitely continue.
I look forward to seeing community members take more responsibility for the maemo.org services upon which we rely.
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2010-09-17
, 17:15
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#23
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It would actually be much easier if maemo.org were just the talk forums and a few bits added on.
In reality we're talking about an extremely big entity, with a small staff running it (many of whom are also contracted to meego).
One part of me thinks this will be a Good Thing, as there have been things held up waiting for the right person to be around, and in principle the more that the community is responsible for the better. On the other hand, it will be a considerable responsibility for the council and those people who are currently employed. I don't doubt for one moment we have the necessary skills here, though getting the right people to volunteer in the right places may take a while.
I share lma's concerns (thank you for the excellent digest of the facts) about what happens when the funding dies up. I also experience some anxiety that Nokia has a habit of springing stuff on us with little warning: my instinct is that we should be both preparing for the funding to end, and campaigning for it to continue more or less immediately.
Edit: Thanks to Bergie for the reassurance that Nemein still have plans and commitment for development as well as maintenance here.
Last edited by RevdKathy; 2010-09-17 at 17:17.
In reality we're talking about an extremely big entity, with a small staff running it (many of whom are also contracted to meego).
One part of me thinks this will be a Good Thing, as there have been things held up waiting for the right person to be around, and in principle the more that the community is responsible for the better. On the other hand, it will be a considerable responsibility for the council and those people who are currently employed. I don't doubt for one moment we have the necessary skills here, though getting the right people to volunteer in the right places may take a while.
I share lma's concerns (thank you for the excellent digest of the facts) about what happens when the funding dies up. I also experience some anxiety that Nokia has a habit of springing stuff on us with little warning: my instinct is that we should be both preparing for the funding to end, and campaigning for it to continue more or less immediately.
Edit: Thanks to Bergie for the reassurance that Nemein still have plans and commitment for development as well as maintenance here.
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Last edited by RevdKathy; 2010-09-17 at 17:17.
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2010-09-17
, 17:22
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#24
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Oh yeah, just so we all understand what we are talking about it includes (please correct me if I've missed anything):
maemo.org is bigger than just ITT.
- all the various apt repositories
- the extras autobuilder
- packages interface (including QA)
- garage (gforge, svn, git, mailman)
- mailing lists (mailman as well as the midgard interface)
- wiki
- bugzilla
- brainstorm
- downloads
- news
- profiles
- voting
- SSO infrastructure (such as it is)
- vbulletin
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2010-09-17
, 17:38
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#25
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
My thoughts exactly. It's safe to assume it won't end in December and probably not in June, but I expect in one of the following few semi-annual reviews it will. It's unreasonable to expect Nemein to pick up the tab, so we should start preparing contingency plans.
I also experience some anxiety that Nokia has a habit of springing stuff on us with little warning: my instinct is that we should be both preparing for the funding to end, and campaigning for it to continue more or less immediately.
There are two parts to this: maintenance & development, and hosting costs.
In theory the hands-on part of could be covered entirely by volunteer work (other projects like Debian and Fedora seem to manage fine for example) but I don't know if we have enough critical mass for that. FWIW I'm more than happy to wear my BOFH hat and pitch in on whatever needs doing.
Hosting on the other hand costs real money, and without a corporate sponsor is going to be tricky :-( For one thing, once you start handling money you need a legal entity which is something we don't currently have. For another you need predictable cash flow in order to budget and plan (and avoid ISPs pulling plugs because of non-payment). Something as variable as ad-hoc donations isn't going to work.
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2010-09-17
, 17:47
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#26
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Originally Posted by bergie
Sorry if it's a silly question, but it wasn't clear to me: is this under a different contract or out of the same ~1-person budget as maemo.org maintenance?
We're also doing development tasks on the MeeGo/Harmattan side of things
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2010-09-17
, 17:49
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Posts: 381 |
Thanked: 847 times |
Joined on Jan 2007
@ Helsinki
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#27
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Originally Posted by lma
Different. IIRC the only overlaps are that some MeeGo work will also benefit maemo.org, and that Reggie maintains both TMO and the MeeGo forum within same contract.
Sorry if it's a silly question, but it wasn't clear to me: is this under a different contract or out of the same ~1-person budget as maemo.org maintenance?
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2010-09-17
, 19:09
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#28
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Thanks for commenting.
One part of me thinks this will be a Good Thing, as there have been things held up waiting for the right person to be around, and in principle the more that the community is responsible for the better. On the other hand, it will be a considerable responsibility for the council and those people who are currently employed. I don't doubt for one moment we have the necessary skills here, though getting the right people to volunteer in the right places may take a while.
I share lma's concerns (thank you for the excellent digest of the facts) about what happens when the funding dies up. I also experience some anxiety that Nokia has a habit of springing stuff on us with little warning: my instinct is that we should be both preparing for the funding to end, and campaigning for it to continue more or less immediately.
I do like that Nemein seems to share more of the community's interest in Maemo's success than perhaps Nokia does at this point. But I am not seeing where this change causes or enables the community to be more responsible, more self-sufficient or more in control. If Nemein is just Bergie and crew, haven't they always been receptive to getting help from the community? And much of what is discussed, SSO, etc., they are already contracted to provide AFAIK.
I don't know if this was sprung or not. I believe Texrat and I suggested transferring the domain to the community awhile ago and its good to see that considered by Nokia and some proposal made. This is described as a proposal so that implies some feedback or alternatives may be discussed, presumably within the next six months. But as suggested, the community hasn't had, and won't have complete control unless it can itself directly reach agreement with Nemein.
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2010-09-17
, 19:46
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Posts: 228 |
Thanked: 145 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#29
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Does the community have any say in how the budget is spent on maintenance / development? Since we have a limited budget that will evaporate altogether in a short while, it may be wise to cut loose some pieces of the infra in advance and redirect resources to others. For example, do we need all of garage? There's plenty of code hosting out there, e.g., GitHub and Google Code. How can we piggyback some of our tools off of meego.com infra?
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2010-09-17
, 20:06
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#30
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Actually, Niels' and David's OBS work should help regarding autobuilder related things. Downloads/packages interface will have to be attended to in any case. I don't think garage or the other components require nearly as much manpower or financial burden to actually be able to conserve significant resources should we cut them loose.
In any case, it might have been timed a bit better (like before the elections so that this conversation could play out *before* the voting begins) but since the handover is in essence a good thing, let's not overanalyse the situation. As for Nemein - if they hit get by a bus, maemo.org is in a lot bigger trouble than the paperwork, as the Nemein staff is at this point the only one thoroughly familiar with all aspects of the infrastructure (esp now that Nokia has left the building).
In any case, it might have been timed a bit better (like before the elections so that this conversation could play out *before* the voting begins) but since the handover is in essence a good thing, let's not overanalyse the situation. As for Nemein - if they hit get by a bus, maemo.org is in a lot bigger trouble than the paperwork, as the Nemein staff is at this point the only one thoroughly familiar with all aspects of the infrastructure (esp now that Nokia has left the building).
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc