Is it okay for a student with limited financial resources to pirate software? - Page 20 - maemo.org

Active Topics

Error after installing Leste on sdcard (18)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by Maemish - 10 hrs, 19 mins ago
Maemo 20th Anniversary (4)
to Brainstorm by teroyk - 2 days, 5 hrs ago
Nokia Booklet 3G (RX-75) Drivers (64)
to Alternatives by teroyk - 2 days, 5 hrs ago
Porting apps to Leste (46)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 4 days, 9 hrs ago
more...

Page 20 of 27

Thread Tools

	Sopwith	2010-09-27 , 10:00
	Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 283 times \| Joined on Nov 2009 @ NYC	#191

@geohsia: All the points that you are making are already answered by my previous post. I guess ysss was right, nobody is gonna leave this thread any wiser

Don't be so hung up on the "selling IP" thing, it's not going to survive. I don't have to come up with a new system, someone else will soon enough.

The drug example that you give is a good way to show how the current system is broken, just change cancer with some common infectious disease. Generic drugs cost very little to produce, yet many millions go into the research of the original. If we don't protect the IP, the company who did the research doesn't get a return on their investment. If we do, millions of children die.

__________________
In anticipation of TMO's obsolescence, and hoping to meet you all again: elsewhere on the interwebs, I am Dr Doppio.

Quote & Reply |

	ysss	2010-09-27 , 10:19
	Posts: 4,384 \| Thanked: 5,524 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou	#192

There's an element of 'taking things for granted' and 'displaced sense of entitlement' that imho is the antagonist in this discussion.

Let's say a valuable IP has yet to be created. Choose your own example, something that is worthwhile to you and it takes significant resource to be developed and can't be done overnight:

- Cure for cancer
- An epic movie/game with huge budget
- An uber firmware for n900, giving it Rosetta Stone capability to run android, iOS, WebOS and WPhone7 compatibility
- Whatever

If said IP does not exist today and the creator asks you point blank "Will you pay $100 for this today, so I can work on it for the next x months and you can have it when it's finished?"

Then people will probably say "Yes." Because right now that LUXURY does not exist yet and they realize the true value of said IP.

Things evidently change drastically when said IP has materialized and it's just a matter of CTRL-C and CTRL-V combo to acquire it.

__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!

Quote & Reply |

	Sopwith	2010-09-27 , 10:29
	Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 283 times \| Joined on Nov 2009 @ NYC	#193

Originally Posted by ysss

There's an element of 'taking things for granted' and 'displaced sense of entitlement' that imho is the antagonist in this discussion.

True dat. Yet I wonder how many of the revolutionaries in the past were only in it for the loot.

Let's say a valuable IP has yet to be created. Choose your own example, something that is worthwhile to you and it takes significant resource to be developed and can't be done overnight:

- Cure for cancer
- An epic movie/game with huge budget
- An uber firmware for n900, giving it Rosetta Stone capability to run android, iOS, WebOS and WPhone7 compatibility
- Whatever

If said IP does not exist today and the creator asks you point blank "Will you pay $100 for this today, so I can work on it for the next x months and you can have it when it's finished?"

Then people will probably say "Yes." Because right now that LUXURY does not exist yet and they realize the true value of said IP.

Things evidently change drastically when said IP has materialized and it's just a matter of CTRL-C and CTRL-V combo to acquire it.

Spot-on, again.

__________________
In anticipation of TMO's obsolescence, and hoping to meet you all again: elsewhere on the interwebs, I am Dr Doppio.

Quote & Reply |

	ndi	2010-09-27 , 11:17
	Posts: 2,050 \| Thanked: 1,425 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Bucharest	#194

Originally Posted by Grok

I guess that means if you've driven drunk and killed someone in an accident while drunk, you would have "no right to ram your dubious morals down anyone's throat" by trying advise someone else not to drive while drunk.

You confuse advice to moral high ground. It is OK to serve as an example to others, is cought and punished. But if you ram people while drunk on a daily basis, no preaching.

Originally Posted by geohsia

Interesting fact, there is enough food in the world today so that everyone can get 3 square meals and be healthy. There is no need for replicators, simply a redistribution / sharing of resources.

Interesting fact: Hauling it half way across the globe before it spoils is prohibitive. Check your facts.

It sounds cool, and it gives people hope that there's enough food. There is no way to get it where it's needed. Thus, useless, and with countries throwing food and others starving.

From the same edition of agitator weekly, did yo know that the sun offers more than we need? It's just a matter of capturing it. Same problem. Prohibitive.

But it's easier if we have someone to blame. Damn (country here), they throw food and (country) starves.

Originally Posted by geohsia

Would you say an ex-alcoholic can't tell a current alcoholic not to drink? An ex-drug user can't tell a current drug user that they should avoid drugs?

Disagree. You can't compare a DVD with an addiction.

See above. It's like an uncought, bag full of loot, retired thief preaching honesty.

Just because one no longer steals doesn't mean it's aaaaalll better. One either has moral high ground or not.

Yes it's good advice and, of course, one is free to declare theft wrong, freedom of speech and all. One, however, should be prepared to be pointed back to a time when one ignored one's own advice.

My English is rusty. What is that word for people who preach but don't practice? The nature of the excuse is irellevant.

If anything, I was a pioneer for IT in a country ravaged by civil unrest. Back then, there was no law, it was legal to copy and sell whatever you wanted. I never used that as an excuse for piracy.

__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.

Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.

Quote & Reply |

	Texrat	2010-09-27 , 13:21
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#195

Originally Posted by sela

Not so sure about that. Does it really feel as if I have stolen something from them? If someone steals my CD, I can feel the CD missing from my bag.

As a content creator (I have registered copyrights and potential patents) *I* am very sure about it.

And you're making the common error of confusing the content with the conveyor. The value in the CD is not the material-- it's the magic in it.

If I make 100,000 boxed copies of a software product, is it okay for you to walk into a store and steal one?

If I decide to use the internet instead of boxes and CDs as my converyer (virtual packaging and distribution), and release 100,000 units as 100% digital instead, is it okay for you to download one without paying?

Those failing to see the equivalence are suffering a severe logic breakdown, and relying on rank rationalization to defend wrongful behavior. You're not buying the content-- you're paying for the right to USE it.

__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net

Quote & Reply |

kureyon	2010-09-27 , 13:40
Posts: 992 \| Thanked: 738 times \| Joined on Jun 2010 @ Low Earth Orbit	#196

Originally Posted by ndi

Interesting fact: Hauling it half way across the globe before it spoils is prohibitive. Check your facts.

Most staple foodstuffs will keep long enough. We're not talking about shipping ready cooked "big mac meals with fries" around the world

Quote & Reply |

mmurfin87	2010-09-27 , 15:44
Posts: 307 \| Thanked: 157 times \| Joined on Jul 2009 @ Illinois, USA	#197

I'm going to renege a little on my steadfast belief that pirating is wrong.

Pirating for the purpose of rebelling against DRM is justifiable.

EDIT: maybe not prices, at least not for all media.

Last edited by mmurfin87; 2010-09-27 at 16:33.

Quote & Reply |

geohsia	2010-09-27 , 16:16
Posts: 515 \| Thanked: 259 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#198

Originally Posted by Sopwith

The drug example that you give is a good way to show how the current system is broken, just change cancer with some common infectious disease. Generic drugs cost very little to produce, yet many millions go into the research of the original. If we don't protect the IP, the company who did the research doesn't get a return on their investment. If we do, millions of children die.

Round and round we go.

Drug companies routine license drugs for the third world so that it can be sold more cheaply in other markets.

The bigger question that will be debated though, is once you stop protecting IP, will that hinder competition and innovation. Newspapers used to be huge, but now that its free and anyone can get access to it anywhere, newspapers are a dying breed. If drug companies can't make millions, will they still try to innovate and spend the hundreds of millions / billions to bring a drug to market only to be sold out by another multinational that can crank out drugs faster and cheaper because they didn't have to do research?

Quote & Reply |

geohsia	2010-09-27 , 16:39
Posts: 515 \| Thanked: 259 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#199

Originally Posted by ndi

Interesting fact: Hauling it half way across the globe before it spoils is prohibitive. Check your facts.

Um, we do that already today. Next time you're at the supermarket, look at the fruits and vegetables. See how many are from different countries. The world is a much smaller place than it used to be.

Disagree. You can't compare a DVD with an addiction.

See above. It's like an uncought, bag full of loot, retired thief preaching honesty. Just because one no longer steals doesn't mean it's aaaaalll better. One either has moral high ground or not.

I get it, you're hung up on high moral ground. All I'm trying to do now is explain to others the impact of their actions. I'm not sure why you think that's important and I will not fight that battle. I will say there are recovered addicts and ex-convicts who have turned their life around and some have very inspiring messages, and can speak positively into the lives of those living in the same problems they used to face. They're not better or holier, but they do have experience they can draw from for wisdom.

The folks here seem honest and genuine, that don't support piracy. I'm sure all at some point have done some sort of piracy but now don't. I don't see why they're point of view is any less valid.

Last edited by geohsia; 2010-09-27 at 16:44.