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2010-10-04
, 19:33
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Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#52
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Originally Posted by casper27
Can we get up some kind of a list between the differences between tjhe three "OS:es" so we dont get million threads about this
To quote Quim Gil
"This would be way clearer if they didn't rebrand it as MeeGo yet, but they wanted to get the marketing behind that brand already. You can think of Harmattan as half MeeGo. The next release after Harmattan will be Nokia's first full MeeGo. "
Pretty clear to me.
Differences between Maemo5 and Nokias "branded Meego(Harmattan)" (as far as we know atleast):
* QT instead of GTK+ as "desktop UI"
* QT (Console) in top of GLIB as backend daemons etc...
* MeegoTouch UI framework in top of QT core
* Hopefully a QT based FULLY working OviMaps (same as N8 but we cant be sure but hope...)
Similar to Maemo5:
* Still linux kernel
* still debian package manager
* Frameworks: QT Mobility that probadly will be fully supported in upcoming 1.3 of Maemo5 (very strongly atleast)
* QT4.7 (atleast in extras-devel)
* alot of backend daemons still the same. Some rewritted in QT.
* GStreamer multimedia backend?`(not sure about this can someone confirm?)
* Possibility to develop apps in Python
* QML development via QTCreator
* C/C++ support via QTCreator
* And i think, but I am not sure, that MeegoTouch framework will be possible to backport to Maemo5 (I base this on the facts that we already have MeegoTouch widgets gallery demo in extras-devel
Differences between core Meego and Nokias branded Meego(Harmattan):
* Some closed apps, drivers and adobe flash etc..
* Hopefully cooler UI than core Meego UI
* Debian package manager instead of RPM
As we can see in above list there is not that much differences between Maemo5 and Meego/Harmattan the difference will be even less for endusers. And in the case of Meego/Harmattan I could understand Nokia in that case it takes time to port from RPM to DEB as an example... Also we will never see a fully open sourced HW based product. There will always bee closed components and without them Meego is ripdead project. (I base this facts on that I have NEVER seen a pfully working product based on fully open sourced drivers etc... and endusers does want Flash/DRM and so on..). BUT hopefully Meego atleast will be more open than android... and with a good development framework like QT and QML Nokia hoppefully soon back in bussiness IF nokia release a Meego product ASAP.
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2010-10-04 at 19:41.
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2010-10-04
, 19:44
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Posts: 158 |
Thanked: 67 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#53
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To all those who think all this Maemo/MeeGo/Harmattan stuff is a mess or stupid or whatnot:
At the moment, the N900 has the closest to a regular GNU/Linux distro on a phone, That means that it's the phone that is the most like my desktop and laptop and server computers. I like that.
Android isn't like that. Android has some java-ish layer on top of the linux kernel making it technically a "Linux phone", but not in the broader sense the word Linux is used (meaning the whole OS, GNU/Linux+X+whatnot).
I also like the Free software thing, the social movement of ensuring freedom for computer users around the world.
For these reasons, the N900 is currently the best phone in existence and it is likely that the N9 will be the best for the same reasons when it comes out.
Obviously, if you don't care about the idea of freedom as much, some other phone may be the best from your perspective.
At the moment, the N900 has the closest to a regular GNU/Linux distro on a phone, That means that it's the phone that is the most like my desktop and laptop and server computers. I like that.
Android isn't like that. Android has some java-ish layer on top of the linux kernel making it technically a "Linux phone", but not in the broader sense the word Linux is used (meaning the whole OS, GNU/Linux+X+whatnot).
I also like the Free software thing, the social movement of ensuring freedom for computer users around the world.
For these reasons, the N900 is currently the best phone in existence and it is likely that the N9 will be the best for the same reasons when it comes out.
Obviously, if you don't care about the idea of freedom as much, some other phone may be the best from your perspective.
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2010-10-04
, 19:48
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Posts: 7,075 |
Thanked: 9,073 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#54
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Originally Posted by casper27
will half meego be possible to update to full meego or are nokia do the wedontsupportupdate again? we will see. Step 1 of 2 in meego evolution
To quote Quim Gil
"This would be way clearer if they didn't rebrand it as MeeGo yet, but they wanted to get the marketing behind that brand already. You can think of Harmattan as half MeeGo. The next release after Harmattan will be Nokia's first full MeeGo. "
Pretty clear to me.
. Hope Quim or somebody from nokia comment on this before star selling N9.
looking forward to the first release of half meego
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2010-10-04
, 20:09
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Posts: 883 |
Thanked: 980 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Bern, Switzerland
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#55
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Welcome back tracker, arch-enemy of mine and every other user interested in usability instead of over-engineering
First boot is always slow due to ... tracker indexing the sample media.
__________________
-Tom (N900, N810, N800)
"the idea of truly having a computer in your pocket just moved a big step closer."
-Tom (N900, N810, N800)
"the idea of truly having a computer in your pocket just moved a big step closer."
| The Following User Says Thank You to twaelti For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-10-04
, 20:11
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#56
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Originally Posted by twaelti
Tracker's my #4 arch-enemy. #1 is Scratchbox. #2 is fennec-qt and #3 is myself.
Welcome back tracker, arch-enemy of mine and every other user interested in usability instead of over-engineering
:P
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2010-10-04
, 20:34
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Posts: 304 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#57
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MeeGo, for netbooks at least, is 100% open source. I have asked a direct question, and I got a direct answer to that question. The MeeGo team will not release any software that is not open source, no blobs allowed anywhere.
This would also mean that the MeeGo team will not release software for the N900 that is not 100% open source? I don't know if this really is the case, but it would be a natural assumption. The MeeGo team releases MeeGo, not Nokia. Therefore, the MeeGo on the N900 will never be in a usable state. To get it in a usable state will be "up to the community", as explained by Nokia.
Nokias software, Harmattan/Maemo6 or whatever it will be called, can of course be released with as many blobs necessary to make it work. But the situation is that Harmattan will not be based on MeeGo, it will be based on Maemo, but with a MeeGo friendly UX. The N9 will run Maemo.
If it is so much easier for Nokia to use Maemo instead of MeeGo on the N9, then why shouldn't it be the same for the N900. The N900 already runs Maemo. What benefits will MeeGo give, that Maemo does not? None, according to Nokia. Why would Nokia release drivers (binary blobs) that also work with the MeeGo kernel? I bet they wont. Why should they? they have Maemo after all.
Who cares anyway, the N900 is old and Nokia use Qt (as if we didn't have Qt since long before Nokia acquired it). In effect Nokias "MeeGo" is only the UX based on Qt. To me the whole MeeGo operation looks more like a maneuver to differentiate the open source activity (MeeGo kernel) and the commercial activity (Maemo kernel) in which future "MeeGo" nokia devices will be based. Or it is a complete mess.
This would also mean that the MeeGo team will not release software for the N900 that is not 100% open source? I don't know if this really is the case, but it would be a natural assumption. The MeeGo team releases MeeGo, not Nokia. Therefore, the MeeGo on the N900 will never be in a usable state. To get it in a usable state will be "up to the community", as explained by Nokia.
Nokias software, Harmattan/Maemo6 or whatever it will be called, can of course be released with as many blobs necessary to make it work. But the situation is that Harmattan will not be based on MeeGo, it will be based on Maemo, but with a MeeGo friendly UX. The N9 will run Maemo.
If it is so much easier for Nokia to use Maemo instead of MeeGo on the N9, then why shouldn't it be the same for the N900. The N900 already runs Maemo. What benefits will MeeGo give, that Maemo does not? None, according to Nokia. Why would Nokia release drivers (binary blobs) that also work with the MeeGo kernel? I bet they wont. Why should they? they have Maemo after all.
Who cares anyway, the N900 is old and Nokia use Qt (as if we didn't have Qt since long before Nokia acquired it). In effect Nokias "MeeGo" is only the UX based on Qt. To me the whole MeeGo operation looks more like a maneuver to differentiate the open source activity (MeeGo kernel) and the commercial activity (Maemo kernel) in which future "MeeGo" nokia devices will be based. Or it is a complete mess.
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2010-10-04
, 20:39
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Posts: 5,335 |
Thanked: 8,187 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#58
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Originally Posted by bsving
They already have.
Why would Nokia release drivers (binary blobs) that also work with the MeeGo kernel? I bet they wont.
__________________
maemo.org profile
maemo.org profile
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2010-10-04
, 20:40
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#59
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Originally Posted by bsving
Well, your information is wrong as Netbook actually comes with funny bits like Flash and Chrome..
MeeGo, for netbooks at least, is 100% open source. I have asked a direct question, and I got a direct answer to that question. The MeeGo team will not release any software that is not open source, no blobs allowed anywhere.
This would also mean that the MeeGo team will not release software for the N900 that is not 100% open source? I don't know if this really is the case, but it would be a natural assumption. The MeeGo team releases MeeGo, not Nokia. Therefore, the MeeGo on the N900 will never be in a usable state. To get it in a usable state will be "up to the community", as explained by Nokia.
The general policy in this area is simple: The MeeGo platform must not depend on closed binaries and must be open source. Images (as in the things you install to devices) can pull in closed bits from a non-oss repository. These licenses must be fair (no royalties, etc) and blobs must be redistributable. This means you can for example add codecs or 3d accelerator libraries, etc.
We do this in MeeGo for N900 for the following bits:
TI OMAP3 SGX drivers (3d acceleration)
BME (battery management) + libcal (access to CAL area)
WL1251 (wifi firmware) and bluetooth firmware
(and cos of a technical problem, Xorg driver as well. It's open source.)
And we try to keep our blobs to a minimum. They're a terrible bother to deal with.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2010-10-04
, 20:58
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Posts: 1,391 |
Thanked: 4,272 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Vienna, Austria
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#60
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Video time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U
(Thanks to Stskeeps for updated graphics drivers, which make the UI faster..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U
(Thanks to Stskeeps for updated graphics drivers, which make the UI faster..)
| The Following 34 Users Say Thank You to thp For This Useful Post: | ||
"This would be way clearer if they didn't rebrand it as MeeGo yet, but they wanted to get the marketing behind that brand already. You can think of Harmattan as half MeeGo. The next release after Harmattan will be Nokia's first full MeeGo. "
Pretty clear to me.