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PradaBrada is offline PradaBrada
2010-10-19 , 07:15
Posts: 294 | Thanked: 240 times | Joined on May 2010
#41
This made my morning
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ossipena is offline ossipena
2010-10-19 , 07:25
Posts: 3,159 | Thanked: 2,023 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland
#42
Originally Posted by twaelti View Post
Oh no please stop the "greedy" and" nobody is gonna pay" lamentations. This is SO typical of todays everything-must-be-free behaviour.
Developing software is a hard and skilled work, but making it ready for end-users is even harder. Properly finishing, testing, documenting, packaging and supporting an app is NO FUN at all. You want to get a proper app? Pay a little something for it. You paid hundreds of $ for the hardware and dozens for $ for the services. Why not pay a few $ for a premium app? 12k is perhaps a two month salary for a skilled western developer - how much time did go into Stellarium over the years?
the rant is about author getting the money but app not getting released. how can you justify that? it would be polite to at least announce something if the app is not released.
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RobbieThe1st is offline RobbieThe1st
2010-10-19 , 07:31
Posts: 842 | Thanked: 1,197 times | Joined on May 2010
#43
@twaelti:
The problem is not so much that the author wants to get paid, its that he released it under GPL, had people work on it under that license(so its not entirely his code anymore), and then wants to get paid for it by changing the license. He's free to take his own code, change the licence and do what he wants with it... But he'd have to redo the work of the other devs, or get them to agree to the change(which is what he's trying and failing to do)

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he just sell it on the OVI store -as- gpl? The only issue is that someone who bought it could turn around and give it away for free... But he'd still be able to make something - It would end up being an "enforced donation" type situation.
And yes, there would be some people who would give it away for free... But that happens anyway, no matter the license.
 

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Wikiwide is offline Wikiwide
2010-10-19 , 08:18
Posts: 2,006 | Thanked: 3,351 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
#44
Originally Posted by RobbieThe1st View Post
@twaelti:
The problem is not so much that the author wants to get paid, its that he released it under GPL, had people work on it under that license(so its not entirely his code anymore), and then wants to get paid for it by changing the license. He's free to take his own code, change the licence and do what he wants with it... But he'd have to redo the work of the other devs, or get them to agree to the change(which is what he's trying and failing to do)

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he just sell it on the OVI store -as- gpl? The only issue is that someone who bought it could turn around and give it away for free... But he'd still be able to make something - It would end up being an "enforced donation" type situation.
And yes, there would be some people who would give it away for free... But that happens anyway, no matter the license.
I would have given several thanks for this post if I could.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, Fabien is the lead developer, and I thank him deeply for releasing Stellarium free and open-source under GPL.

Fabien thinks that the difference between Stellarium and Stellarium Mobile is so large that he could make Stellarium Mobile closed source and require payments for it.

I'm glad he cannot change the license, whatever the reason... And I'm sorry he spends time creating negative reactions around him.

I understand that end-user support, bug fixes, et cetera can be time-consuming... But nobody requires them! Just be kind, and when you improve software for yourself in your free time, share it with others. Otherwise, somebody is going to take the source code and improve it himself, whatever you think about it.

Now, please, Fabien, react and announce your decision. While people still remember about existence of Stellarium Mobile.
 
sony123 is offline sony123
2010-10-19 , 08:27
Posts: 650 | Thanked: 619 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#45
The author not releasing the app is just a lose-lose situation for him and the users. I, for instance, don't care about what license the app is under, if it's good I will donate/buy, simple as that.
Last edited by sony123; 2010-10-19 at 09:04.
 

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Flandry is offline Flandry
2010-10-19 , 12:36
Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#46
Making this into a Fabien hunt isn't really productive. There are far too many unknowns to lay the blame there, and without further information, the biggest failure seems to be Nokia's simply because of contest execution. Nokia may still be in a position to remedy the situation, but again there is too much uncertainty to know if they screwed up so badly as to not require source code for GPL entries.

The hope was that the council would contact Nokia about the situation and get some answers.
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-10-19 , 12:47
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#47
Originally Posted by sony123 View Post
The author not releasing the app is just a lose-lose situation for him and the users. I, for instance, don't care about what license the app is under, if it's good I will donate/buy, simple as that.
You're missing the point. - If it's your application and you originally released it under the GPL, you are of course free to change its licensing at any time.

But from the information we have, it's not his application alone. There were others who contributed to this open source project. You cannot accept free (as in beer and in freedom) code from co-developers, then re-license and sell it your your own benefit. Had I ever contributed to the application, I'd strongly oppose such a suggestion.

Which makes me wonder:
If it's true that it's GPLed free software and if it's true that others contributed - why don't they have the sources and release the application to extras-devel? That's the whole point of free software, isn't it? Nobody can prevent you from sharing it.
 
richwhite is offline richwhite
2010-10-19 , 12:53
Posts: 908 | Thanked: 501 times | Joined on Sep 2010 @ West Sussex, England
#48
Originally Posted by twaelti View Post
Oh no please stop the "greedy" and" nobody is gonna pay" lamentations. This is SO typical of todays everything-must-be-free behaviour.
Developing software is a hard and skilled work, but making it ready for end-users is even harder. Properly finishing, testing, documenting, packaging and supporting an app is NO FUN at all. You want to get a proper app? Pay a little something for it. You paid hundreds of $ for the hardware and dozens for $ for the services. Why not pay a few $ for a premium app? 12k is perhaps a two month salary for a skilled western developer - how much time did go into Stellarium over the years?
No one minds paying, who has actually said they won't pay? The problem is a) he's won 12.5k already, which is way more than the majority of developers could ever hope to expect and b) he's holding it up.
D-Livil and nicolai and MuhammadAG have arguably done most for developing the N900's potential, yet they're not *****ing they aren't getting paid, and their apps are free. A lot of us donate to them for their efforts and as it's a donation, we voluntarily do so and don't complain about it. I think the Maemo community is, by and large, very rewarding and full of generous people.

The problem here is substantial money has already been awarded for an app. The developer is asking for exceptions from other developers and is halting the release because he wants more money. That's just frankly not fair - it's not fair on the other developers on the project, it's not fair on the other developers of separate apps who worked hard and released them and got nothing in return, and it's not fair on the end-users who are stuck waiting for a fantastic app.

I give full credit to Fabien for developing Stellarium, but that doesn't excuse the sheer level of dickery that is being displayed by halting its release on the basis of a lack of money. $12k might be 2 months salary to Western developers, but it's also over 6 months salary for many other workers, and it sure isn't bad for a project. Hell, if developing is a hobby, like it is to most, then there should be no "expectation" of payment; as stated, many will donate to it, but it isn't a "job" as such. Think of all the time people put into learning an instrument or building model airplanes or whatever other hobbies they take up, they do so for passion of the project and any monetary rewards are a bonus.
 

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*Sonic* is offline *Sonic*
2010-10-19 , 18:45
Posts: 376 | Thanked: 56 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#49
Did Fabien write the original Stellarium, or just alter the original to make it more mobile friendly ?

If he did the latter, then can't someone else take up the mantle and code a mobile friendly version and release it

I would pay that person for a copy
 
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YoDude is offline YoDude
2010-10-19 , 19:42
Posts: 2,869 | Thanked: 1,784 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Po' Bo'. PA
#50
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
You're missing the point. - If it's your application and you originally released it under the GPL, you are of course free to change its licensing at any time.

But from the information we have, it's not his application alone. There were others who contributed to this open source project. You cannot accept free (as in beer and in freedom) code from co-developers, then re-license and sell it your your own benefit. Had I ever contributed to the application, I'd strongly oppose such a suggestion.

Which makes me wonder:
If it's true that it's GPLed free software and if it's true that others contributed - why don't they have the sources and release the application to extras-devel? That's the whole point of free software, isn't it? Nobody can prevent you from sharing it.
BINGO!



...or at least do what Gates did when he wanted to make some money off of QDOS.

It sounds like parts of it are GPL and that's what was in extras-devel and not his changes.

Offer each of these other code contributors a token amount of that prize money in exchange for a quit claim. Then offer it for sale.
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