IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo! - Page 5 - maemo.org

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ericsson	2010-10-23 , 18:04
Banned \| Posts: 974 \| Thanked: 622 times \| Joined on Oct 2010	#41

Originally Posted by ysss

Everyone who doesn't see the necessity of building a commercially successful product (to support their hobby) is living in a pocket of ignorance that will one day bite them on their bum.

That's not it.

In the "MS Windows world", HW is simply a commodity that has to fulfill MS standards and in all other respects has to be manufactured and sold as cheap as possible. The only one making money in this world is MS. It is the same with Android for all practical purposes.

The MeeGo world is very different. The upstream software is free and open. The leaching factor (MS) is cut out of the equation, and you will have more freedom, both literally and economically, to create market manufacture and sell unique products. Certainly some standards of binary or higher level compatibility will emerge, if needed, but it's mostly already there.

MS cannot compete with this, neither can Android/Google. They will loose people and they will loose money. It is already happening.

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	ysss	2010-10-23 , 18:10
	Posts: 4,384 \| Thanked: 5,524 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou	#42

Originally Posted by ericsson

That's not it.

In the "MS Windows world", HW is simply a commodity that has to fulfill MS standards and in all other respects has to be manufactured and sold as cheap as possible. The only one making money in this world is MS. It is the same with Android for all practical purposes.

The MeeGo world is very different. The upstream software is free and open. The leaching factor (MS) is cut out of the equation, and you will have more freedom, both literally and economically, to create market manufacture and sell unique products. Certainly some standards of binary or higher level compatibility will emerge, if needed, but it's mostly already there.

MS cannot compete with this, neither can Android/Google. They will loose people and they will loose money. It is already happening.

What are you saying? That people are looking for modular and commoditized phones/smartphones, thus MeeGo is poised to take advantage of this hidden desire?

Where's the (real and practical) unique selling point; compared against Android, iOS and WP7?

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Laughing Man	2010-10-23 , 18:28
Posts: 4,556 \| Thanked: 1,624 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#43

Originally Posted by Texrat

This is nuts.

Blackberry OS, iOS, and Symbian were all strong when Android started chipping away at them.

Another OS can do the same to Android.

Possible. But..

Blackberry OS, slightly outdated (in terms of modern UI) and if I'm correct, you can only get a Blackberry OS from RIM. Thankfully they make devices on different telcos and different devices. But still limited by how many RIM can put out.

iOS (only from Apple) so it's limited by how many devices Apple can put out.

Symbian, probably the closest thing to Android in terms of dominance across different handset manufacturers. However, due to 'stagnation' Android is replacing it.

And now you have Android, an OS that can be installed on nearly any device with the backing of a major company (Google) who is always improving it and providing their own Google services first on the platform. They're pretty much the next Symbian but without the stagnation.

Now this doesn't mean Meego, Windows Phone 7, etc.. and the others won't survive. They may just not reach dominant marketshare. And depending on your strategy (e.g. Apple and their profit margins) that may not be the goal. But especially for Meego which has an uphill battle to face in terms of attracting developers, they need the handset numbers.

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Originally Posted by ysss

They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...

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ericsson	2010-10-23 , 19:03
Banned \| Posts: 974 \| Thanked: 622 times \| Joined on Oct 2010	#44

Originally Posted by ysss

What are you saying? That people are looking for modular and commoditized phones/smartphones, thus MeeGo is poised to take advantage of this hidden desire?

Where's the (real and practical) unique selling point; compared against Android, iOS and WP7?

Well, I am not sure it is possible to explain it to you. You don't seem to be capable of comprehending more than two or three lines of reasoning at any single time. Sorry to be mean, but that's how I see it.

But I can try:

Google is making Chrome OS. A web based OS that works pretty much only on the web. This is one part of the future; the web for everything. You hardly need an OS for this, but you need the web. Jolicloud is similar, I have installed it, and it works. I'm not sure I liked it too much, but I'm sure lots of people do. The point is, as long as the web is there, and HTML5 is there, MS Windows has no place in there. There is nothing MS can do to make it better for the user.

MeeGo is similar. But MeeGo offers a total package, not just the web. But it still is Linux, and can use all he stuff made over the years for that platform. MeeGo is hosted by the Linux Fondation, MeeGo is the ultimate Linux distro, it is what all other distros should have been. Most of all, it is a common platform for - everything. It has everything, the web, the core OS, the UX and it works on everything, at least everything mobile. Any open standard can be used, and any closed standard can also be used for the manufacturer of HW. Netbooks and tablets will be sold with any variety MeeGo. They may look differently, they may behave differently, but they will all have the web and everything with it. They will all be able to run 3D games and so on. The manufacturers of HW don't loose anything, the users don't loose anything. What MeeGo does is to cut out the leech, MS and Android for that matter, and channel the money into HW and direct software development for their HW (but there is no need for much software development).

Have to add: MeeGo is an OS for mobile devices, it is not a smartphone OS, but more for devices called smartphone-ish tablets and larger. Symbian is Nokias smartphone OS, (the best OS ever produced, but that's irrelevant here). Unless this is understood, this discussion is hopeless.

Last edited by ericsson; 2010-10-23 at 19:13.

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	ossipena	2010-10-23 , 19:09
	Posts: 3,159 \| Thanked: 2,023 times \| Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland	#45

Originally Posted by lanwellon

It is too late !

too late for what? do you sign a contract with Win7, iPhone and/or android that you must use the same OS for the rest of your life or you must be killed or something?

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NokTokDaddy	2010-10-23 , 19:47
Posts: 248 \| Thanked: 240 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK	#46

Originally Posted by ysss

Pros and cons of MeeGo on Nokia...

Pros:
+ Open.
+ More robust.
+ Size of Nokia (and Intel?) behind it.
+ Newer, less saturated platform. May be appealing to new developers. NOT a selling point to most users.
+ Qt and Symbian.

Cons:
- Competitors have significantly more userbase: aids in marketing, aftersales support, secondary market.
- Competitors have significantly more developers: Continuous new content, quicker to package/channel new trends into their ecosystems.
- Competitors have significantly more apps: More features and functionalities to cater to all sorts of niche userbases.
- Competitors already have significantly more 3rd party accessories, services, tie-ins and whatnot.

Without a very significant unique selling point, I'm afraid MeeGo may be too little too late.

Agreed.

But most of the cons couldmve been applied to Android or iOS at their birth - and they have done quite well, I believe...

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	ossipena	2010-10-23 , 20:18
	Posts: 3,159 \| Thanked: 2,023 times \| Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland	#47

Originally Posted by ysss

Cons:
- Competitors have significantly more userbase: aids in marketing, aftersales support, secondary market.
- Competitors have significantly more developers: Continuous new content, quicker to package/channel new trends into their ecosystems.
- Competitors have significantly more apps: More features and functionalities to cater to all sorts of niche userbases.
- Competitors already have significantly more 3rd party accessories, services, tie-ins and whatnot.

Without a very significant unique selling point, I'm afraid MeeGo may be too little too late.

what do you mean when you talk about userbase? if you are talking about latest figures, competitors have bigger userbase if their shares are combined....

how many developers competitors have? what about number of devs doing stuff to symbian?

and apps are just flaws of os. naturally you need some amount of different apps in order to customize the device just for you but every app released either adds feature(s) to os or make some feature(s) better........for example apple fanbois didn't like at all when they found out what the workflow is with n900 from starting camera app to get image tagged and uploaded to service x. they quickly changed the subject....

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	ysss	2010-10-23 , 20:23
	Posts: 4,384 \| Thanked: 5,524 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou	#48

Originally Posted by ericsson

Well, I am not sure it is possible to explain it to you. You don't seem to be capable of comprehending more than two or three lines of reasoning at any single time. Sorry to be mean, but that's how I see it.

But I can try:

Google is making Chrome OS. A web based OS that works pretty much only on the web. This is one part of the future; the web for everything. You hardly need an OS for this, but you need the web. Jolicloud is similar, I have installed it, and it works. I'm not sure I liked it too much, but I'm sure lots of people do. The point is, as long as the web is there, and HTML5 is there, MS Windows has no place in there. There is nothing MS can do to make it better for the user.

MeeGo is similar. But MeeGo offers a total package, not just the web. But it still is Linux, and can use all he stuff made over the years for that platform. MeeGo is hosted by the Linux Fondation, MeeGo is the ultimate Linux distro, it is what all other distros should have been. Most of all, it is a common platform for - everything. It has everything, the web, the core OS, the UX and it works on everything, at least everything mobile. Any open standard can be used, and any closed standard can also be used for the manufacturer of HW. Netbooks and tablets will be sold with any variety MeeGo. They may look differently, they may behave differently, but they will all have the web and everything with it. They will all be able to run 3D games and so on. The manufacturers of HW don't loose anything, the users don't loose anything. What MeeGo does is to cut out the leech, MS and Android for that matter, and channel the money into HW and direct software development for their HW (but there is no need for much software development).

Have to add: MeeGo is an OS for mobile devices, it is not a smartphone OS, but more for devices called smartphone-ish tablets and larger. Symbian is Nokias smartphone OS, (the best OS ever produced, but that's irrelevant here). Unless this is understood, this discussion is hopeless.

(Well, I've got some extra baits... I might as well feed you.)

You must be one of those who've been waiting for Linux to take over the desktop for more than 10 years. It's been poised to take over desktop computing for the exact same reasons cited there.

I've formulated my last question carefully, perhaps you should read and understand it completely before performing another embarrassing verbal diarrhea:

Where's the (real and practical) unique selling point for MeeGo; compared against Android, iOS and WP7?

Btw, 'cutting down the middlemen' is not the correct mantra here; because the middlemen brings value. They tie in and repackage all the variables to be consumable by the broadest % of audience and they're the one with the biggest interest to make the huge marketing push necessary.

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Rauha	2010-10-23 , 20:24
Posts: 1,400 \| Thanked: 3,751 times \| Joined on Sep 2009 @ Arctic cold of northern .fi	#49

Originally Posted by ysss

Pros and cons of MeeGo on Nokia...

Pros:
+ Open.
+ More robust.
+ Size of Nokia (and Intel?) behind it.
+ Newer, less saturated platform. May be appealing to new developers. NOT a selling point to most users.
+ Qt and Symbian.

Cons:
- Competitors have significantly more userbase: aids in marketing, aftersales support, secondary market.
- Competitors have significantly more developers: Continuous new content, quicker to package/channel new trends into their ecosystems.
- Competitors have significantly more apps: More features and functionalities to cater to all sorts of niche userbases.
- Competitors already have significantly more 3rd party accessories, services, tie-ins and whatnot.

Without a very significant unique selling point, I'm afraid MeeGo may be too little too late.

Very good list of pros and cons. I would add Nokia's brand strenght as a darkhorse to the list. It could be in either plus or minus. The amount of people to whom mobilephone is synonymous to Nokia used to be staggering. Lets see how much of that is left by the time Meego is released.

Last edited by Rauha; 2010-10-23 at 20:45.

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	ysss	2010-10-23 , 20:40
	Posts: 4,384 \| Thanked: 5,524 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou	#50

Originally Posted by ossipena

what do you mean when you talk about userbase? if you are talking about latest figures, competitors have bigger userbase if their shares are combined....

You're right. But...

I'll get f'ed for saying this, but I think Nokia's 'smartphone userbase' is not that relevant. Why? Because they're more likely to buy Nokia's flagship models (smartphone range) because they're "Nokia's flagship"; NOT because of the smartphone capabilities.

Smartphone (last season, Nokia's prime): good camera w/ mms/3g call capability, some email, some browsing, some apps.

Current smartphone: past gen capabilities PLUS: great email, great browsing, hectic apps ecosystem.

I'd say N97 still hasn't made the full transition. (OK, N8 is a new ballgame, we'll wait and see its numbers).

how many developers competitors have? what about number of devs doing stuff to symbian?

I don't know, if their apps ecosystem are as busy as iOS/Android's, then they must be underground?

and apps are just flaws of os. naturally you need some amount of different apps in order to customize the device just for you but every app released either adds feature(s) to os or make some feature(s) better.

You're saying that apps like office file viewer/editors should be embedded into the OS?
Credit card processors (like Square) should be embedded too?

Come on.

You may utterly hate their restrictive practices or blatant commercialism or how freely inane junks creep into the appstores; but you can't deny that it's been such a sheer force in building a vibrant and productive developer community.

.......for example apple fanbois didn't like at all when they found out what the workflow is with n900 from starting camera app to get image tagged and uploaded to service x. they quickly changed the subject....

Let me change the subject real quick here..