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	Texrat	2010-01-12 , 19:55
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#91

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

This is fine.. bells and whistles galore.

The way I see it.. if Nokia doesn't want people to be root - they would try more to stop it (ala Apple). If they don't care.. they may as well add it.

We are talking about a very few times scenario here that someone can't install rootsh.. and in these cases it's very frustrating dealing with a device that locks you out. It's these rare times you may as well have an iPhone, or an Android.. you can't do Shyte.

But we all know Nokia knows about rootsh.. it's in just extras for crying out loud.. not even testing or devel designed for *testers*.. its in the USER repository..

You know for sure they get calls with people that have rootsh installed.. I would stake my paycheck on it.

Don't get me wrong, I lean toward your side of the argument personally. I am in the minority on this poll in fact.

But I have to wonder: are people generally answering for themselves in this thread, or hypothetical users? Or both?

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 19:58
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#92

Originally Posted by Bratag

Is that really ever likely to happen?

It did.. that's why I bring it up. I never would have thought of it either. Follow this thread here.

By the time I got to that thread it was page 7.. half a dozen people tried helping ForzaHudd and nobody knew the answer.

I knew it immediately when I saw his message on page 4. He had to clean up apt temp files.. extremely simple, extremely easy, very little risk...

He didn't have rootsh.. and his app manager would not update. He even posted on Nokia's forums here and met someone else trying the exact same thing with him.

Ultimately he had two choices: Red Pill.. or Reflash. I maintain that whole thing could have been avoided.. and was unnecessarily complicated for no reason.

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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-01-12 at 20:00.

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 19:59
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#93

Originally Posted by Texrat

Don't get me wrong, I lean toward your side of the argument personally. I am in the minority on this poll in fact.

But I have to wonder: are people generally answering for themselves in this thread, or hypothetical users? Or both?

Well.. for my side.. I am answering for me. I am very selfish that way

. I would want root as soon as I open the box and go.

So far.. I have yet to see anyone convince me that by keeping root in an easily installable package in the default repositories that come with the device (extras comes default right?) - that they are saving anybody from anything.

At that point.. it's nothing but a pain.

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ColdFusion	2010-01-12 , 20:01
Posts: 397 \| Thanked: 227 times \| Joined on May 2007	#94

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

So your telling me if any of these people brick their device with rootsh Nokia will say they voided their warranty and won't help them?

How would that be any different than Apple, exactly?

Most likely they will tell you to flash your device.
Every time you had to install something on the n800 it told you that this app is not coming from Nokia, so they have no responsibility over it. As far as I remember on the n900 the warning comes up only the first time.

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ColdFusion	2010-01-12 , 20:03
Posts: 397 \| Thanked: 227 times \| Joined on May 2007	#95

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

So far.. I have yet to see anyone convince me that by keeping root in an easily installable package in the default repositories that come with the device (extras comes default right?) - that they are saving anybody from anything.

It's saving Nokia support costs.

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 20:08
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#96

Originally Posted by ColdFusion

It's saving Nokia support costs.

I still don't buy it. I just know Nokia gets called by people with bricked and or funky working N900's that were caused by rootsh. Sure, something that bad they are going to say to reflash it..

but some users just don't get the reflash process.. and sometimes their device just isn't reflashing right. Is Nokia going to reject the phone because they user installed something from the *default* repo that came with the phone? I doubt it.

And if the user manages to delete just one weird configuration file that makes the phone itself act really strange.. the user isn't going to have ANY idea.. they are just going to call nokia (or come here) and be "When I do this.. this weird stuff happens.." and spend hours on the phone with Nokia support trying to figure out what happened and why.. and either ultimately determine that "somehow" (cuz very rarely did I ever hear "Oh, I did that..." in tech support) the file got deleted - or they eventually tell the user to reflash.

But honestly.. reflashing the phone should not be a default answer..

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	Bec	2010-01-12 , 20:12
	Posts: 876 \| Thanked: 396 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#97

You guys & gal

are all exaggerating, red pill is disabled and there really isn't a maemo community as big and as well organized as this one.

To brick their device they first have to find with what.
To brick it with terminal, they must have doe some research before.

And in the end... for those who really tried hard... a cold eMMC flash is just what they need to LEARN.
Learn by mistakes I mean

And a nice fat format is not so bad afterall, who knows what trash might have gathered from uninstalled apps & such.

If you have a PC sooner or later you'll have to reinstall the OS... no use being overprotective with the kids

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ColdFusion	2010-01-12 , 20:16
Posts: 397 \| Thanked: 227 times \| Joined on May 2007	#98

If you did anything stupid with root, the default is always reflash, because it's so damn difficult to find out exactly what someone did over the phone or forum.
They just want to cover their donkey as much as possible while giving us total freedom. I'd rather have the option of installing root than be sandboxed so that i can't do anything stupid.

Edit: "***" is censored... really?

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	ossipena	2010-01-12 , 20:20
	Posts: 3,159 \| Thanked: 2,023 times \| Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland	#99

Originally Posted by Matan

Do you want me to upload a package with rm -rf / in postinst?

It is so obvious that installing a package might damage your filesystem. But this is true regardless of the package coming from a repository or from your local file system. The decision to only allow packages from repositories does nothing for security.

go ahead if you really think i can install it with 2 taps and no keyboard... please read what I write,dont change subject

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 20:24
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#100

Originally Posted by ColdFusion

If you did anything stupid with root, the default is always reflash, because it's so damn difficult to find out exactly what someone did over the phone or forum.
They just want to cover their donkey as much as possible while giving us total freedom. I'd rather have the option of installing root than be sandboxed so that i can't do anything stupid.

Edit: "***" is censored... really?

But that argument makes the phone no better than some Androids, or the iPhone. You hear a lot of people talk about the "openness" of Maemo and the platform.. yet you have to install a package for root... because by default, you're locked out.

Well.. you have to download and flash the iPhone, or install an app for the G1.. to gain root too.

I was always annoyed at people comparing jailbreaked iPhones to the N900 just because the two ideologies were fundamentally different. N900 is open, you aren't supposed to be able to Jailbreak the iPhone.

Evidently I was mistaken.. they all want to lock us out.. just some parents are more forgiving than others when you break the rules I guess.