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gerbick
2010-06-08 , 03:43
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#91
@ ZShakespeare

I personally do not agree with you being a troll.

I also don't agree with your opinion.

But I will respect your opinion in the hopes that you respect my opinion.

With that said, I think you might have had too great of a reaction to what was said. You're aggressively stating your opinion and online it tends to be met with aggression.

That's my take, imho.

Just keep it cool, calm and discussions can grow nicely. That's for all.
 

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SAABoy is offline SAABoy
2010-06-08 , 03:43
Posts: 604 | Thanked: 108 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Phoenix, WA
#92
Originally Posted by ZShakespeare View Post
How about android and apple phones that do everything that one would expect a phone to do, while an "open source" (I use the term lightly because it's not really) phone doesn't.
are you freaking kidding? i dont recognize some of the things that are going around in this thread, but I did just read the whole thing, and a few people have given awesome counter-examples. and i also noticed at least 2 people who did, what i think is, a great job pointing out that nokias mismanagement of the n900 has nothing to do with open source and its pros and cons in the rest of the world...

you are clearly a troll... and to whoever took a swing at those who go to junkyards for car parts, whether it be to save money, or restore old cars, F*ck you.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-06-08 , 03:58
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#93
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
I'm all for having the source code available for programs I want to learn from. I'm all for helping other people accomplish their own dreams and projects by giving them my source code.
Ok.

I don't like indian givers (GPL licensed code).
Labeling people because you fundamentally fail to understand what it is about does not lend any credence to your argument. In fact, it weakens it as you do not understand the target of your argument.

Hierarchies = Organization.

Organization + Financial Incentives = Excellent Code
This is not an absolute truth.

There's a reason the best "open source" products have developed hierarchies and thats because without hierarchies code developed by more than one person is either **** or doesn't work, usually both.
A command structure usually develops, yes, but that does not debase open source nor does it imply that other open source projects are a total free-for-all. Go ahead, try to submit bad code to the kernel and it'll get torn apart, and not necessarily by someone who works for the Linux Foundation or even manages part of the tree.

The beauty of this is that companies that don't produce good code die out. Open source projects just linger.
Well no. Numerous companies churn out code of undefined quality, but you can't see it because it is closed. When they go under, the software they produced usually vanishes with them. Open source projects can linger, but their code is still around regardless of being good or bad. This is not a problem.

So it has been my personal, highly subjective experience that I prefer to do business with companies and not "communities". If that company will release their source code, then hey thats awesome I'll probably be more loyal now.
Then you readily and completely miss the concept, and wide-ranging functional operation of open source projects that while having a somewhat (but not totally) hierarchical command structure still have a community. After all, it's why the LKML is referred to as the Kernel community.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-08 , 04:00
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#94
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
The beauty of this is that companies that don't produce good code die out.
Oh, if you could only look behind the curtain. You'd be in for a very rude awakening.
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My personal site: http://texrat.net
 

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Frappacino is offline Frappacino
2010-06-08 , 04:25
Posts: 619 | Thanked: 691 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#95
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
Organization + Financial Incentives = Excellent Code

There's a reason the best "open source" products have developed hierarchies and thats because without hierarchies code developed by more than one person is either **** or doesn't work, usually both.

Companies have hierarchies. Its implicit in how they work. Furthermore, companies (generally) have financial incentives.

The beauty of this is that companies that don't produce good code die out. Open source projects just linger.
Do you even WORK in IT where is code is written ? Have you ever written code COMMERCIALLY in a corporation ?

Companies that dont produce good code die out ??!!? hahahhaha

I am sorry, to ANYONE to has written code extensively in a corporate environment, your statements show how naive you are (or you are a marketing/managerial person). I suggest you go read Dilbert to find out why the final code written in a corporate environment often sux (hint: most of the time it has nothing to do with coder skills). And yes, Dilbert is much closer to the truth then you think.

I guess you think Microsoft Internet Explorer is the best thing since sliced bread vs open source alternatives like FireFox. Or that Windows is the most secure OS ever devised.

Anyone who says 1 is inherently superior to the other is dumb as nuts. It all depends on what specificially you are talking about. e.g. you will find ZERO very good games in Open Source (they are all closed), but you will find the best in browsers etc.
 
mmurfin87 is offline mmurfin87
2010-06-08 , 04:38
Posts: 307 | Thanked: 157 times | Joined on Jul 2009 @ Illinois, USA
#96
Originally Posted by Frappacino View Post
Do you even WORK in IT where is code is written ? Have you ever written code COMMERCIALLY in a corporation ?

Companies that dont produce good code die out ??!!? hahahhaha
Using the word "code" was a bad choice of words. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that companies always have better achitecture in their code or that they are in any way superior coders. A better word would be "software" and specifically features. Product might be closer even.

I'll admit that statement is poorly worded. A better rendering of the though I was trying to get across is:
Companies produce good software (good being a measurement of innovative features, performance, and affordance) and the ones that don't die out.

That isn't to say that companies that produce good software don't also die out.
 
mmurfin87 is offline mmurfin87
2010-06-08 , 04:42
Posts: 307 | Thanked: 157 times | Joined on Jul 2009 @ Illinois, USA
#97
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Labeling people because you fundamentally fail to understand what it is about does not lend any credence to your argument. In fact, it weakens it as you do not understand the target of your argument.
In this instance I do understand fully the philosophical and practical natures that the GPLs embody. I don't agree with it. It certainly has lots of good points, but also lots of stupidity.

I guess I should delineate what I meant.

The best software is unarguably made by organized person(s). The best open source projects are organized. The very best ones are companies.

Once they become companies, while they are still certainly driven by the communities, the real innovation comes from those directly involved with the company, and not the random "spare-time" coders. Certainly those spare-timers might contribute a lot in a lot of different ways, and may be the lifeblood of those projects. Ultimately though, the "open-source"ness of those projects is different from the "open-source"ness of projects that are done by groups of people who just do it in their spare time.

I find no use for people who produce bad code in their spare time and pronounce it holier than Microsoft simply because its open source.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Oh, if you could only look behind the curtain. You'd be in for a very rude awakening.
Please don't ruin my naive faith in the ultimate victory of Capitalism.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-06-08 , 04:58
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#98
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
In this instance I do understand fully the philosophical and practical natures that the GPLs embody. I don't agree with it. It certainly has lots of good points, but also lots of stupidity.

I guess I should delineate what I meant.
Certainly hope so.

The best software is unarguably made by organized person(s).
Of course, nothing good really comes from chaos.

The best open source projects are organized.
Yes, organized projects tend to work well.

The very best ones are companies.
Unfounded statement. Corporations can and do churn out utter crap. Sometimes they get away with charging millions for it.

Once they become companies, while they are still certainly driven by the communities, the real innovation comes from those directly involved with the company, and not the random "spare-time" coders.
When you're paid to work on things, yes, lots more focus can be paid to a project. This is why the Linux Foundation exists and why things like MeeGo, the Linux Kernel, and other efforts are being started under it.

Certainly those spare-timers might contribute a lot in a lot of different ways, and may be the lifeblood of those projects. Ultimately though, the "open-source"ness of those projects is different from the "open-source"ness of projects that are done by groups of people who just do it in their spare time.
Not necessarily. Many very, very open projects have full time coders yet are still extremely open. Lots of people are driving many major open source projects both with spare time coders and full time, dedicated people working on them. There is no problem with this, and extensive openness is retained for all users.

I find no use for people who produce bad code in their spare time and pronounce it holier than Microsoft simply because its open source.
Well those people often tend to be wrong. But they have no bearing on the overall situation though.

I do not believe you delineated what you hate about the GPL, which makes me wonder if you understand what the GPL means as a license, or if you're simply reacting to something without fully understanding it.
 
badboyuk is offline badboyuk
2010-06-08 , 10:36
Posts: 334 | Thanked: 45 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#99
f.... all! I guess once meego is out then there will be a lot more happening on this scene. Nokia and everyone are not going to or do much for maemo as you can see they already took the p*ss in releasing the pr1.2 update which hasn't done much for us really, u have to be honest with yourself on that 1. A lot of promises were made on the release of the n900 but everone can see that its just simply being brushed aside and not spoke much of now.
but then again what is better handset/device than this at the moment? nothing, pretty much all the handsets have bugs or issues and none are better to get unless its the iphone oh but wait it doesnt have multi tasking at the moment but the new 1 will. But still apart from apple there is nothing really and then again apple is just a big kiddies phone.
Im ok with the n900 wether all the bugs, lack of apps and whole open source ideas/commitments have gone down the toilet....the device itself does a good job. We really just need a solid fw update that can fix at least 90% of the issues and a bag of some fun touch screen games and useful apps.
 
slender is offline slender
2010-06-08 , 10:56
Posts: 2,829 | Thanked: 1,459 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland
#100
badboyuk,
http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1
http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1
http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.2
Thatīs huge amount of bug fixes. Maybe not ones what you would like but still huge amount. We can argue that should or should not these bugs exists in device out of box but thatīs waste of time. Point is that people tend to speak about "bugs"even thought they meant to speak about enhancements and added features. So you have huge amount of bugs. Care to make list with links to bugzilla so we can discuss
Last edited by slender; 2010-06-08 at 12:41.
 
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