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szopin is offline szopin
2015-07-10 , 22:19
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#91
Originally Posted by xes View Post
Reading your words, it seems to be clear that you really think that a community like this could live forever without money because there is no need to pay for registrations, hosting, connectivity, energy and so on...

If next month someone will ask some donation for the energy bill, would you still call this action "scare with monsters"?

Then, remember we all know that the future is uncertain...but despite this, every volunteer here involved in maintenance tasks of any level tries to keep things running trying to predict some of tomorrow's problems.
No one wants scare with this.
But we should reflect about what could happen since we have no hidden weapons under the hood.

If you think that a TM is not a good reason for a donation, feel free to give something for whatever you like of this community that is not receiving money since a lot of time.
xes: it is more I expect more discussion, trademark made sense for Nokia with a product to sell and official services to provide to it, so no hacker would create a maemo.com website with malware, we have no use for it. There are plenty good reasons to collect money, but if we sheepishly fund unnecessary things, at some point people will either get tired or run out of money. When is meego up for renewal, we have meego subforum, should we retrademark that too? Lets hear the arguments for it. C64/amiga/atari forums somehow live on without any trademarks and costs from those. Why would we need them?

edit: and to answer your question: energy/hosting/connectivity - are all good reasons to collect money and will happily contribute to that and advise others to do it, just trademark is a legacy 'gift' from dead product, had sense in different context when it was commercial, not community as it currently is based
Last edited by szopin; 2015-07-10 at 22:28.
 

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xes is offline xes
2015-07-10 , 22:38
Posts: 638 | Thanked: 1,692 times | Joined on Aug 2009
#92
@szopin
I don't have any direct legal experience concerning TM conflicts and related domains actions.
If you have a direct experience with this, and you can grant that no one can ask us to change name and domain or close any kind of activity, feel free to contribute here any reference explaining that position.
 

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szopin is offline szopin
2015-07-10 , 22:45
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#93
Not a lawyer, just woody and endsormeans bring up examples from patent cases, we have tons of dead trademarks (amiga, atari, c64, zx spectrum... you name it) and communities that have grown around them and not a single case of problems coming to life because a community of enthusiasts is using a trademark that was re-registered/repurposed. Why is that? By the logic of people who bring up the patent-harassment all these sites would have long ago been forced to change their URLs and stop using the names. Is it because it is impossible by law? Or is it because you spend first 2k euro and have no return guaranteed as we can change to talk.mer.org and show them middle finger in worst case scenario, so who would invest in that?

and btw we are dwarfed by the amount of c64/amiga fan-sites alone, so much more place for 'free money' if that would actually work
 

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xes is offline xes
2015-07-10 , 22:53
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#94
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
Not a lawyer...
Oh, thanks.
 

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szopin is offline szopin
2015-07-10 , 22:57
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#95
You're welcome, haven't seen a lawyer in this thread so far, anyone can rebutt argument why amiga etc had no such FUD (literally fear, uncertainty and doubt - monsters guise!!! fear them, they could, maybe, possibly do something) and the communities work without any such payments?

in google:
c64 - 7,700,000
amiga - 99,400,000
atari - 30,400,000
webos - 14,300,000
maemo - 3,730,000
tizen - 2,910,000
zx spectrum - 1,830,000

We are higher than samsung at least (though their TM is probably still active) and zx spectrum (probably micro b too), but if TM trolling websites was profitable amiga is the likely winner of attention
Last edited by szopin; 2015-07-10 at 23:10. Reason: amiga, typoed spectrum
 

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JohnHughes is offline JohnHughes
2015-07-13 , 15:49
Posts: 89 | Thanked: 194 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#96
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
Note: As we already received donations via PayPal from members within the Eurozone and lots of people demand anonymous registration with maemo.org and the MCe.V. -> just to let you know, PayPal forces us (and any other business) to provide bookkeeping for the USA (no kidding, some shady tax fraud rule that applies to all customers having bank accounts outside the US)
I donated via PayPal -- I know it's horrid but my stupid French bank wants me to fax them a signed form just so I can add a non-French SEPA account for a transfer and that's just too much of a pain.

 

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reinob is offline reinob
2015-07-13 , 18:12
Posts: 1,808 | Thanked: 4,272 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ Germany
#97
Originally Posted by JohnHughes View Post
non-French SEPA account
There goes "our" "Europe". Not even this we can get right..
 

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wicket is offline wicket
2015-07-13 , 23:14
Posts: 634 | Thanked: 3,266 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia
#98
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
c64 - 7,700,000
amiga - 99,400,000
atari - 30,400,000
webos - 14,300,000
maemo - 3,730,000
tizen - 2,910,000
zx spectrum - 1,830,000
Most, if not all of those (with the exception of Maemo) still have active trademarks and some company still sells products under those names.

This community has already seen first hand what happens when you let a registered trademark expire. It would be naive to think that no one would be interested in abusing the Maemo name in this manner.

I'm in two minds about whether I personally want to help save the Maemo trademark. I kind of agree with you that it's not the end of the world if we have to go by another name. That coupled with my current financial situation means that I am unlikely to make a donation.

Nevertheless, I fully side with those who do want to save the Maemo trademark. People have donated specifically for this cause and therefore that money should go directly to renewing the trademarks, not on infrastructure or anything else that you have suggested.
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szopin is offline szopin
2015-07-14 , 07:35
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#99
Meego is still active and registered to the linux foundation (expires 2020: https://oami.europa.eu/eSearch/#deta...arks/008859803 ), btw maemo is listed as still owned by Nokia:
https://oami.europa.eu/eSearch/#deta...arks/004218137
('c64' and 'zx spectrum' (and 'micro b') are free for trolls to take, 'commodore' actually isn't and they had a lawsuit in 2012, thought for a moment it was TM troll based on their website: http://commodorecorp.com/ but that is all that is left from that, ouch, oh they also prevented some guy's kickstarter from producing commodore 64 molds, but I guess that was a commercial product), but yeah, there's no guarantee the TM won't be re-registered by someone looking to troll Nokia or MS and they might try to go after the url
Last edited by szopin; 2015-07-14 at 07:53.
 

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Halftux is offline Halftux
2015-07-14 , 14:29
Posts: 868 | Thanked: 2,516 times | Joined on Feb 2012 @ Germany
#100
So for people who like to transfer to a sepa bank account they could use xendpay. This company has local bank accounts where you transfer the money and they do the rest. For me it is the cheapest to transfer money world wide but it could take 5-7 days because of two bank transfers. I made only good experience and made around 40 transfers.

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