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2009-06-02
, 19:38
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Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#1012
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
In this case, the letters become too small for me to read. Do not forget that in addition to the font size you set in the software (like the text reader) you also have the physical font size seen by the eye. Given current pixel densities of these screens, any letters readable by human eyes will contain enough pixels to make them smooth, no matter what font you choose.
You're using the same fixed width font you use in xterm for your e-book reader on your N8x0 as well? What if you use a font which is smooth enough you can use a smaller size instead, allowing you to read more text?
| The Following User Says Thank You to fms For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-06-02
, 20:21
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#1013
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Originally Posted by fms
(It is not only about being able to read.)
In this case, the letters become too small for me to read. Do not forget that in addition to the font size you set in the software (like the text reader) you also have the physical font size seen by the eye. Given current pixel densities of these screens, any letters readable by human eyes will contain enough pixels to make them smooth, no matter what font you choose.
From what I understand the optimization can go in various ways, and this includes the rendering and the font. If you have monochrome (Kindle is) you pick different rendering optimization than when you require a high contrast, or you optimize for LCD instead of CRT. So the smoothing and hinting you pick are very important, and if you take contrast into account this might even change in the case of different light situations (sunlight, dark, ...).
Do you know why the letters become too small to read? Because inherent to fixed width font is that it is optimized for fixed width first and then for readability. So you'd need a higher font size with the fixed width fonts. In my experience terminal applications have a too high default font size, but YMMV. Some people prefer a higher or lower font size than other people (because of disability or age or simply preference). Same true for font preference (but there are obviously very stupid choices which can be made in this regard).
Now, if youth are able to use a 3.5" correct and without problem while elder are not we might have a special market for those elder. The Nokia N900 O-Series (for Old people). I doubt it will see the light though. So perhaps you need a different manufacturer. Or like everyone else you need to see an ophthalmologist and get yourself a pair of glasses for reading texts. Or you continue to whine about your disability without solving the root of the problem, making your problem someone else their problem as well.
Also, the problem lies more in non-English texts. This is about the quality of TrueType fonts in Linux:
The automatic hinter generally improves the appearance of free or cheap fonts, for which hinting is often either nonexistent or automatically generated anyway, but it can degrade the appearance of professional hand-hinted fonts, and does not work well (or at all) for non-Western text that requires a different approach to hinting. As a result, many people prefer to enable the patented hinting technology.
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2009-06-02
, 20:44
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Posts: 37 |
Thanked: 41 times |
Joined on May 2009
@ Oregon
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#1014
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Originally Posted by zfarooq
Welcome to the forum!
Hey guys...I can see how going from a 4 inch to 3.5 sucks for you..because you guys expected an internet tablet. But I am sure Nokia will release something similar in the future...but this model is aimed at a different group altogether.
I wanted to buy the N97 but due to the 'clunkiness' of Symbian, low processing power lack of kinetic scrolling etc and just a bad translation to touch, I chose not to buy it when I found out that the N900 could be released this summer. If not I'll wait coz internal HW wise and software its not shining for the N97...and I want something different optimized for touch...and thats how I ended up on this forum.
I think the N900 with Maemo will have all the smooth UI +excellent hardware...it'll be the future of N series while Symbian is down shifted as repeatedly told previously.
I think you guys should be very happy that its going mass market because it will mean that there will be accelerated development, more support, quicker updates, more choice of HW, many more applications...Nokia will gain the consumers that are put off by symbian and will want to jump on this band wagon because for them its NEW...and something different (as everyone initially EXPECTED...an interface that will wow and is fun), which is a huge change after years of Symbian in a phone.
I cant wait for the N900 esp after reading a forum where ppl in the know commented that there is something 'special' about the screen, and the recent leak was pretty much spot on.
What was the other forum where you got some more info on the N900?
Report This | #810
Originally Posted by Team C View Post
I was nervous about joining after reading some of the anti phone people posts and would like to thank Jsa for showing me that I would not get shot on sight!
Originally Posted by qole
zfarooq, just a couple more of us and were done for!
We're just batching you up, more efficient to do it in groups of 5 or more.
Last edited by Team C; 2009-06-02 at 20:51.
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2009-06-02
, 21:00
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Posts: 174 |
Thanked: 69 times |
Joined on Jun 2009
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#1015
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Originally Posted by Team C
Haha! Yea its just us new folk who are stumbling here coz we're curious about Maemo and excited abt a a new OS on top end Nokia phones finally. Symbian changing with the SF will take time.
Welcome to the forum!
What was the other forum where you got some more info on the N900?
Report This | #810
Originally Posted by Team C View Post
I was nervous about joining after reading some of the anti phone people posts and would like to thank Jsa for showing me that I would not get shot on sight!
zfarooq, just a couple more of us and were done for!
It was in the mobile-review forum that I heard talk abt the N900...just said something specific about the screen was missing.
No idea what...maybe Haptikos? OLED screen? or Multi touch of some sort being Capacitive and OLED?
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2009-06-02
, 21:08
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Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#1016
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
This reminds me of a well known FAQ on baking eggs in a microwave. See, text rendering optimizations only help if you have got a few big pixels and your text looks chunky. If you have got lots of tiny pixels, you do not need to optimize font rendering that much. Unfortunately, if your letters are too small physically, the reader won't be able to see them well, no matter how you render them. And if they are big enough for the reader to see, you are guaranteed to have enough pixels to render text without any tricks.
From what I understand the optimization can go in various ways, and this includes the rendering and the font
Do you know why the letters become too small to read? Because inherent to fixed width font is that it is optimized for fixed width first and then for readability.
Now, if youth are able to use a 3.5" correct and without problem while elder are not we might have a special market for those elder. The Nokia N900 O-Series (for Old people). I doubt it will see the light though. So perhaps you need a different manufacturer.
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2009-06-02
, 21:12
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Posts: 1,950 |
Thanked: 1,174 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Seattle, USA
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#1017
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
While I enjoyed your notion of a model N900-O for old people, and I realize that not every "disability" can be catered to by a commercial enterprise, 60% of Americans are farsighted. (Since I haven't read that fast-food or gasoline-guzzling are causes of farsightedness, I would suppose that this figure is more-or-less accurate worldwide or at least in Europe, as well.)
Now, if youth are able to use a 3.5" correct and without problem while elder are not we might have a special market for those elder. The Nokia N900 O-Series (for Old people). I doubt it will see the light though. So perhaps you need a different manufacturer. Or like everyone else you need to see an ophthalmologist and get yourself a pair of glasses for reading texts. Or you continue to whine about your disability without solving the root of the problem, making your problem someone else their problem as well.
Yes, I wear glasses, I went to my optometrist last month, but that isn't the cure-all you seem to think it is. (And my eyes aren't that bad, first requiring reading glasses at the ripe age of 29.) So drop this line of argument already, especially as (A) nobody is saying Don't make a 3.5" cellphone; they (we) are just saying, Make a bigger-screened tablet, too; and (B) there are more of us than there are of you!
(The way some of you are talking you would think that a person could see a paramecium on a glass slide if he just held it close enough to his eye!)
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2009-06-02
, 21:35
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#1018
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Originally Posted by fms
Not that much, you say, but it might contribute a little bit to provide a more pleasant experience. So does the screen quality. Its all a big sum which adds up to an end experience. So does hinting. Rest assured the hinting on Kindle is optimized for monochrome screen, and it probably has a proprietary font as well. Heck, for the first Kindle one main complaint is the contrast, and by default Kindle will not show non-English characters like Japanese well. In case of English and other Western languages hinting is just less important than where the pixel density is already always good, like on LCD screens.
This reminds me of a well known FAQ on baking eggs in a microwave. See, text rendering optimizations only help if you have got a few big pixels and your text looks chunky. If you have got lots of tiny pixels, you do not need to optimize font rendering that much. Unfortunately, if your letters are too small physically, the reader won't be able to see them well, no matter how you render them. And if they are big enough for the reader to see, you are guaranteed to have enough pixels to render text without any tricks.
At the moment they are big enough to read it still matters what kind of font you use! Go use Netscape Navigator 4 on SunOS or IRIX and tell me you find those default fonts readable. It is simply a horrible experience no matter how big or small you put the default fonts. If I compare that to iPhoneOS and MacOSX default fonts these provide a much better experience, in different screen sizes and on different screens.
Sorry, but this is plain ********, as many people here will tell you pretty soon, I am afraid.
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2009-06-02
, 22:07
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#1019
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"Or you continue to whine about your disability"
Congrats, you have achieved true offensiveness!
BTW, I don't happen to have this disability; I am "elder", as you call it, but myopic. So all I have to do to read fine print is take off my glasses.
But I wasn't the one you were talking to when you made your offensive comment.
Congrats, you have achieved true offensiveness!
BTW, I don't happen to have this disability; I am "elder", as you call it, but myopic. So all I have to do to read fine print is take off my glasses.
But I wasn't the one you were talking to when you made your offensive comment.
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2009-06-02
, 22:12
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#1020
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
Congratulations! Your new N900 will be shipped right away*.
And 1000
Before you can receive your device, we need you to sign the following document:
I, PenguinBait, do hereby promise to:
- port KDE 4.2 with full 3D acceleration to the N900, in time for the official launch. I understand that this may mean not sleeping or eating, but that is an acceptable compromise.
- make a KDE right-click solution involving tapping the screen and then giving the device a good shake.
- run for maemo.org council in September 2009.
- tell everyone that a D-Pad is unnecessary.
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Signed, PenguinBait
* Your N900 is almost ready to go. We only have to build a test device and check if everything is okay, create a mold of final case (can be done once the case fits, takes 30 - 35 days), do CE / FCC testing (can be done once the prototype case is here), and then do stability testing (this will be fun). According to a respectable website, we should have all this done by next week.
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Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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| Tags |
| disapointed by nokia, dpad, maemo phone, my tablet is crying, n900, nokia gets it wrong, openmoko, rover, rx-51, rx-71 needed, screen size, smartphone, t-mobile |
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