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2008-07-18
, 04:31
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Posts: 87 |
Thanked: 40 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#102
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As for me, TI is an amazing company. Sadly, this is BAD amazement. They called OMAP 'open', first O in OMAP means exactly this. However, no, Luke, you can't have datasheet. And yes, it is a top secret how this CPU boots up. And it is top secret which peripherial set it has and how to control all this. Really 'open' CPU. Huh. Ti has nice view on what "open" means, probably that was sort of sarcasm from them. And TI is AFAIK pretty mad in features licensing so you can have a bunch of hardware which can crush the mountains but actually for you it is just a dead metal. Yeah, there is 3D, yeah, there is video decoding accelerator... and no, YOU can't use them. I know that in OMAP2 they're far from perfect and OMAP3 is slightly improved these but some acceleration still better than nothing. To be honest it is shame that Nokia's media players are slow as a jerk out of the box (and even Mplayer beats 'em to the hell).
Btw, I wonder why Nokia sticks to such nasty and restrictive vendor even if this really hurts device features set and performance. There is lots of other vendors whose CPUs are not so restrictive. For example, Nvidia recently unveiled amazing SoC, running powerful ARM11 core (up to 800 MHz IIRC), decent 3D accelerator, video decoding acselerator (so, you can get HD-quality video decoded in realtime) and so on. And probably Nvidia slightly less restrictive since they have to fight for a market with their SoC. As for me, I'm preferring to see Nxxx Next Gen on another hardware so it can be a really NEXT generation in features set, not a past year's snow being sold as cool modern ice-cream.
Last edited by PowerUser; 2008-07-18 at 04:41.
Btw, I wonder why Nokia sticks to such nasty and restrictive vendor even if this really hurts device features set and performance. There is lots of other vendors whose CPUs are not so restrictive. For example, Nvidia recently unveiled amazing SoC, running powerful ARM11 core (up to 800 MHz IIRC), decent 3D accelerator, video decoding acselerator (so, you can get HD-quality video decoded in realtime) and so on. And probably Nvidia slightly less restrictive since they have to fight for a market with their SoC. As for me, I'm preferring to see Nxxx Next Gen on another hardware so it can be a really NEXT generation in features set, not a past year's snow being sold as cool modern ice-cream.
Last edited by PowerUser; 2008-07-18 at 04:41.
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2008-07-18
, 04:41
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#103
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Originally Posted by PowerUser
'Probably', but where's the beef? You do realize the Tegra is both ARM11 and wont support Linux, right?
There is lots of other vendors whose CPUs are not so restrictive. For example, Nvidia recently unveiled amazing SoC, running powerful ARM11 core (up to 800 MHz IIRC), decent 3D accelerator, video decoding acselerator (so, you can get HD-quality video decoded in realtime) and so on. And probably Nvidia slightly less restrictive since they have to fight for a market with their SoC. As for me, I'm preferring to see Nxxx Next Gen on another hardware so it can be a really NEXT generation in features set, not a past year's snow being sold as cool modern ice-cream.
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2008-07-18
, 07:52
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#104
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Originally Posted by PowerUser
This is off-topic in this thread but it would be useful if someone would start a wiki page comparing side by side the stock media player with Mplayer and others. There have been plenty of discussions in ITt and elsewhere, yet I think we all miss details and accuracy. I will bring the atention of the related developers and product managers. Thanks.
To be honest it is shame that Nokia's media players are slow as a jerk out of the box (and even Mplayer beats 'em to the hell).
Last edited by qgil; 2008-07-18 at 08:14.
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2008-07-18
, 07:56
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Posts: 269 |
Thanked: 93 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#105
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Originally Posted by PowerUser
Maybe I'm wrong, but all the ARM technology is something licensed by ARM ltd to other chip vendors (in this case TI) that use the ARM core in their embedded processors.
As for me, TI is an amazing company. Sadly, this is BAD amazement. They called OMAP 'open', first O in OMAP means exactly this. However, no, Luke, you can't have datasheet. And yes, it is a top secret how this CPU boots up. And it is top secret which peripherial set it has and how to control all this. Really 'open' CPU. Huh. Ti has nice view on what "open" means, probably that was sort of sarcasm from them. And TI is AFAIK pretty mad in features licensing so you can have a bunch of hardware which can crush the mountains but actually for you it is just a dead metal. Yeah, there is 3D, yeah, there is video decoding accelerator... and no, YOU can't use them.
The fact that TI pays a fee to ARM ltd to use its technology doesn't mean that TI can give every specs to the public: just the "things" added by TI and licensed by itself can be "opened" to the public...
It's not easy to be "opensource" in real life, because there's always somebody ready to sue you for a copyright infringement (Just look at apple, they patented the square/rectangular form with a round/wheel interface and a colour display used in media reproduction devices...).
Looks like I wasn't wrong after all http://www.arm.com/products/licensing/licencees.html
Last edited by JustNick; 2008-07-18 at 08:02.
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2008-07-18
, 09:01
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Posts: 94 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#106
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I opened some files with a HEX ed. and in libimgegl.dll it says at one position "Imagination Technologies 1.1 build 3.3.33.750.2" and it also has references to libgles_cm.dll that seems to be the OpenGL ES lib and libpvrNULLWSEGL.dll and libpvrTechViewWSEGL.dll
Seems to be the file to look at closer
I don't know, if you programmers and experts out there want to try it now on the not so brightly lit side of power. But the way to go would be to wrap reverse or whatever do to the driver and create a setup in which the programs communicate through OpenGL ES with the driver and in which the wrapped driver is replaced with a software driver. So that Developers can port and develop OpenGL ES enhanced software and test on the Device. And the poweruser that want to go beyond may search on google and may find a hardware accelerated driver and just replace the software driver to unlock their devices. So no one comes directly in touch with something not so ok(at least till support is dropped completely and nobody cares anymore(reminding me of the Aximsite discussion regarding hacked ROMs)).
I for now will delete all the files I downloaded for educational purpose only
Seems to be the file to look at closer
I don't know, if you programmers and experts out there want to try it now on the not so brightly lit side of power. But the way to go would be to wrap reverse or whatever do to the driver and create a setup in which the programs communicate through OpenGL ES with the driver and in which the wrapped driver is replaced with a software driver. So that Developers can port and develop OpenGL ES enhanced software and test on the Device. And the poweruser that want to go beyond may search on google and may find a hardware accelerated driver and just replace the software driver to unlock their devices. So no one comes directly in touch with something not so ok(at least till support is dropped completely and nobody cares anymore(reminding me of the Aximsite discussion regarding hacked ROMs)).
I for now will delete all the files I downloaded for educational purpose only
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2008-07-18
, 09:31
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Posts: 94 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#107
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Originally Posted by lcuk
Mission accomplished
derhorst,
I understand your frustration, I have said the same things directly to nokia employees and do believe if it reaches the right people may actually be a deciding factor.
However, it is not quite the same thing for 2 reasons:
The other released N Series devices running powervr use the Symbian operating system, this is not compatible with Linux.
And the second larger reason is that phones are using (we think) the actual video out from the omap2420 to drive their displays directly, whereas the video display on our tablets is driven from an external LCD controller chip.
Having said that, if there was a Symbian binary driver available for this specific chip I would be interested to see if a compatability wrapper could be produced to make use of the Symbian driver in linux.
I believe a similar process allows desktop linux to use Windows network drivers.
So, your mission: find the correct symbian drivers and lets see what we can do
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2008-07-18
, 11:24
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Posts: 1,635 |
Thanked: 1,816 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Manchester, England
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#108
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qgil,
If the wiki pages on certain issues carry weight then I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I don't do enough with either media player to know the details, perhaps others do.
If the wiki pages on certain issues carry weight then I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I don't do enough with either media player to know the details, perhaps others do.
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2008-07-18
, 20:06
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#109
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Originally Posted by qgil
Well, at least here, Media player has handicaps that MPlayer doesn't. For instance, it doesn't particularly matter if MPlayer leaves screen artifacts when minimizing to the tray or entering windowed mode, while I don't believe Nokia would see it as acceptable for the built-in Media player to do that. So, yes, MPlayer is significantly faster than Media player, but the reasons for that aren't entirely Nokia's fault.
This is off-topic in this thread but it would be useful if someone would start a wiki page comparing side by side the stock media player with Mplayer and others. There have been plenty of discussions in ITt and elsewhere, yet I think we all miss details and accuracy. I will bring the atention of the related developers and product managers. Thanks.
So, the value of letting product managers know what you can do with a somewhat "hackish" solution may not be that high.
Still, it'd definitely be good to get them involved community-side (Andre's latest comment on bug #630 makes me wonder whether bugs without any apparent action in bugzilla have just plain not been looked at because certain product managers and developers can't be arsed to get involved with the public buzilla . . . and we went for a while there without even a MaemoQA forwarding stuff :\).
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2008-07-18
, 20:14
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Posts: 4,708 |
Thanked: 4,649 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Bulgaria
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#110
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Would be great if mplayer can use the media player's proprietary wmv codec, since mplayer rc1 has bad wmv3 decoding
__________________
Technically, there are three determinate states the cat could be in: Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Technically, there are three determinate states the cat could be in: Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Last edited by pataphysician; 2008-07-17 at 23:52.