While I agree for the most part, you have to realize the G1 most likely won't see 2.0. The last "official leak" I've heard is that it's 8Mb to big to fit on the horribly partitioned G1, meaning 1.6 will be it's last official OS, The G1 was released October 22nd 08, With 1.6 coming out late September 2009. That makes the device officially legacy hardware in 11 months.

I'm curious to see what Nokia will do with the N900, but I doubt anyone really expects any hardware to continue to see software updates after a year, the only reason it's worked on the iPhone is because the core feature set has remained the same and it was designed specifically to be backwards compatible, that's something our $600 geektoys were never designed to do. Considering the Original iPhone will never see MMS means that it magically lasted 2 years, but I don't foresee future firmwares offering to many options to the 2G.

yepp, and the magic too won't get an update. It will be stuck at 1.5.
I promised my uncle when he bought it that it would be updated because i thought htc usually updates their android stuff but no no.

Eikido

And nokia updates.
The N95 is almost 3 years old and it recently got a new fw, v31.

Eikido

Real? Fake?

G1 to get official over the air Android 2.1 update?
http://gizmodo.com/5436927/android-2...=Google+Reader

}:^)~

Exactly. Android does not officially allows apps to use Linux syscalls and similar facilities (as well as lacks common set of libraries, etc), Once you can't use Linux facilities directly, it's can not be considered as Linux.Look, I can run Windows in VMWare. Somewhere in the deep most of stuff would get translated to Linux syscalls. But should I call Windows as Linux due to this fact? No? Ok, then JVM is not Linux either. Yeah, recently Google also reinvented the wheel and allowed some calling of native code from Java. But Linux is not Java. Linux can't execute java apps directly and does not requires them to be written in Java. Hence judging on APIs which are presented by platform to apps it's not Linux at all.

Once you can't run most of Linux programs, that's not a Linux from user's standpoint. Once you can't make Linux syscalls from your app in a usual way, that's not a Linux from dev's standpoint. And officially platform only supports Java + some other tricky stuff which is incompatible with others. Oh yeah, now recently google allowed some native code but in a horrible way and their system far away from being usual Linux and haves a dozen of shortcomings due to it's Java nature. Also there is dev's phones, While they allow more, the problem is that it's not possible to give a packaged native application with acceptable amount of headache.

And at the end of day, this "advantage" means slow and useless apps which are resource hogs and they're mostly written by students in a rapid manner to make things even worse. While phone's CPU already weakling, eliminating it's performance further with JVM has been a bad idea IMHO.

On Nokia I can run most of GTK and Qt progs coming from desktop Linux. As well as I can get root - legally! On Android I generally can not. Android is not compatible with anything. So neither it can use existing things nor anyone except them would benefit from developed stuff. IMHO that's a very bad way of doing the things. Nokia does it much better. So anyone on desktop Linux (and other OSes too!) also benefits from Nokia's efforts and vice versa. Should I mention Sofia SIP library? Telepathy? And much more. On other hand Android is quite useless for other platforms and other platforms are quite useless for Android. Stupid decision.

The major problem is: it's impossible to use most of graphic Linux programs (GTK+ or Qt based) with anyhow reasonable headache. Also it's not compatible with any other platform at all. So all stuff have to be written specially for that platform. Does Google things code reuse sucks so much? So their java crap anyhow better? Lol. I never seen more questionable platform design. Benefits? Whole history of Android is a fight with shortcomings and limitations of platform design. On other hand Nokia used a decent OS design to make a real computers, not a toys. So it can do the things like running a bunch of decent apps. Not a pocket super micro castrated versions, "specially for [new ***** platform name here]".

And me just got root on my device :-). So it's I'm who is a real device owner, it's my device. Under my control. Thank you Nokia, that's my best phone I ever had. And it's even under my control. Me thinks that's quite cool.

I do not want to learn to "live with it" for 600 euros. I want to have a real fun and feel the real power of computer in my pocket . And n900 does this - it's a real Linux-based computer. On other hand Android is rather resembles a toy with their java-centric design. IMHO, it's boring and strange. It gives advantages? Nah, if you want to feel Linux power and use it, such system design would rather give a ton of headache. Hardly counts as advantage. Yes, Android maybe offers other advantages. But surely it fails to be a multimedia computer. Computer is a flexible and universal thing allowing unlimited choices and possibilities, Android is rather restricted and limited so it's rather a phone. I'm even not sure if it can be named a smart phone since smart phone usually able to run native code and Google only allowed this in very recent designs and in very strange manner.

And last word: in real life, Android's JVM often used to keep users away from their system. Yeah there are dev phones but on most phones Android used to restrict users in installing software and running own code. That sucks since it looks like Java jail...

While you and I are mostly on the same side here PowerUser I have 2 points:

Almost nobody pays $600 for any android phone out now... so learning to "live" with it isn't as costly as the N900.

And, despite the overhead, Android's platform does give an advantage.. and that advantage is portability. Now, a similar thing can be accomplished using python/perl/ruby on the N900, but also with a similar (albet not as steep) overhead to the applications in going through an interpreter.

You have to realize that Nokia and Apple both selected hardware that they designed specifically for, and have built their OS around that hardware and optimized it. In the case of Android and Google, however, google didn't and doesn't want to do hardware. (This may change with the Nexus One). Therefore, what Google has done is make it extremely easy for any handheld making company out there to design whatever phone they want... compile the raw linux kernel and Davlik VM onto it.. and run Android.

In practice, there has been headaches with the "Apps will just run!" theory behind this approach, as is evident by the many comments in the market: "Doesn't work on XYZ device, force closes all the time", etc. However, it's far more versatile than Maemo.

With Maemo, not just the operating system would need to be recompiled for the new hardware, but also nearly every C++/Qt/GTK app that runs on it would also need to be recompiled... unless you use one of the languages above - at a cost.

So yes, there is a benefit, and Google's decision to move that way does make sense for their business model for Android.. but in the process they have distanced Android so greatly from Linux that it barely resembles a distant relative.

I still that the most accurate description at this point is that, Yes, Android is Linux. Android is not, however, GNU/Linux - and in this day and age "linux" and "GNU/Linux" have become nearly interchangeable. So since social norms have Linux == GNU/Linux, Android != GNU/Linux, Android != Linux.

While I might actually be wrong in some cases, you haven't proved me wrong anywhere.

Flash may refer to: Flash memory

As I said earlier, it's probably 300'ish on the N1 in reality (due HTC's RAM counting method). The N900's more powerful SoC can compensate for that anyway. And as you said yourself, the N900 does have more virtual runtime memory.

Link please.

I'm too lazy to reply to this. First off, do some research about the MHz myth and understand the unequality of CPU and SoC. Then, and only then, come back and discuss why the Snapdragon is a better choise than the OMAP3.

Is this a joke? I can easily run say Pidgin on N800, N900, Windows, Linux and AdiumX on Mac uses most of its libs. With Qt apps would be able to run even on Symbian devices without major changes. Same thing does not works for Android. You can not run Android app on other platforms easily. So they're mostly useless as long as it's not Android. And wait, I can not run say Pidgin on Android. And that's not a Pidgin's fault, it's platform's fault since it fails to supply all needed things. But wait other OSes do not fail to do so. Even while Linux and Windows have quite few in common, both can handle this, isn't it?

So, portability is a bad joke. Good theory, bad practice. I can't easily have my favorite OpenTTD on Android. But I can run in on desktop Linux, Windows, N900 and any other decent OS. So where is this cool portability of Android, then? Where sun does not shines?

Most portable thing ever is C. You can run same C code on a matchbox-sized device and even some 8-bit microcontroller and on supercomputer. Android would fail to become as portable as usual old good C does for obvious reasons

Yeah. Me generally dislikes Python apps due to bloat. And Maemo design more flexible. If someone needs JVMs, there is nothing really prevents it in platform design. Looks like people just do not need it enough to get things running . So, Google not seems to be right with java-centric design.

Maemo actually can run on other hardware. Some chinese company produces tablets with OS based on Maemo. Surely chinese companies are worse in R&D, so they would have troubles getting as popular as Nokia. But they did it.

But they want to lock users to their services and it's not what their privacy policy is very good.

Correct, but the result would be quite boring.

There is no universal stuff in the world. So, result is a least common denominator. So, Android-based notebook would have features set of a cell phone since Android have to run on cell phones. IMHO that's an idiocy rather than portability.

Not a great problem for opensource apps, actually. For example on desktops, programmers don't even have to bother self about compiling app X for distro Y. Since it's up to maintainers of distro Y to compile app X for desired platforms and their OS flavour.

There was such "benefit" ages ago, it has been called J2ME... so Google reinvented wheel again. And their square wheel is not compatible with usual roads so they also need to create new Google Roads (tm) and learn us to use them and love them.

Me does not classifies anything as Linux if it's not possible to make Linux syscalls in normal way, legally, officially and without resorting to dirty hacks. So while there is Linux, it's launcher for JVM. Look, on J2ME there was proprietary RTOS running JVM. You even do not have to know it's name and APIs at all. I do not see how Google differs in this approach. Now proprietary RTOS replaced with Linux but all other components and ideas are pretty same. So I do not see any benefits from having such "Linux which is not a Linux at all" in my pocket.

Imho it sounds like this: Android uses Linux as launcher and to access hardware resources. But it is not Linux. Just as Windows in VMWare machine uses Linux host to start VM and access host's resources, etc but not a Linux in any way at all .

You're still missing the point.

If I develop an Android application.. it runs on Android.

It doesn't matter if the phone is running Snapdragon, Omap, Omap3, x86, or any other processor. I built the application once, put it in the Google market, and it runs on everyones phones.

This is not possible with Maemo except via python/et al.

If I compile Maemo on a Non-Arm processor, I cannot point it to the exact same repositories that the Maemo on the N900 is pointing and install the exact same software.

A developer or package builder must intervene at this point.. recompile the software I want for my new Non-ARM maemo, build a .deb for it, and then create his own repo or extension to the maemo repo for the Non-ARM processor type (whatever it is.)

That is not portability. Yes, most (not all) software CAN be recompiled for use on a Maemo on a different platform.. but that is not as simple, easy or efficient as Android's method. Android uses a single market, for any phone or device on any hardware.

This cannot be accomplished with maemo and it's c++/qt/gtk apps. There must be entirely separate trees for each hardware type, and the same software has to be compiled, and recompiled, and recompiled again.

Just because the Pidgin developers and community ported the apps to Windows, Linux, Mac, and the Maemo community ported the App to N800 and N810 is not "portability" like Android.

If it were like android.. Pidgin would have been built one time.. and then every device in the world (assuming everything was android) - regardless of the hardware - now has pidgin. That is the appeal to Android.

I do agree whole-heartedly with your negativity towards google reinventing the Java wheel. At the very least they should have maintained the Java standards, if they weren't going to follow the Linux norms.

Also, as far as your syscalls and what not.. this isn't allowed on any android phone.. but if you actually get into the android SDK and development on Android you do have access to these things and are able to compile libraries and drivers/etc for Android.. which Dan already said in a previous post.

I would love to get the nexus 1 but there is a big problem. No multitouch. I could live without it if it had a physical keyboard but it doesn't. Which means, if you type fast, and you hit the next key before your finger is fully off the previous key, it won't register. Typing becomes a nightmare. I'd always rather have a good keyboard (like the touch pro 2) then onscreen but typing without multitouch is a dealbreaker for me.