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droitwichgas is offline droitwichgas
2011-07-07 , 17:43
Posts: 523 | Thanked: 292 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#101
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
You are worse than Mr Me and I Clown danramos. Who cares what YOU see? Of course every single thing regarding Nokia is in future potential right now. Have the Nokia stock values completely passed you by? WP already have more than 20 thousand apps, and is increasing by the minute. MS has a modern fully functional OS and ecosystem. More people use hotmail than gmail, much more. They have X-box with direct integration to the OS. And the only way to connect your device with a PC is by using MS Windows.

Most people have no idea who Elop is, and they couldn't care less. They see a cool looking device with Nokia and Microsoft logo being advertised with all they ever need pre-installed and on top of that, 30k apps (rapidly growing) to download. Sure an HTC or LG or Samsung will have similar devices, but not similar build quality, similar style and similar looks, similar camera quality, similar reception quality, similar sound quality, but most of all, nowhere near the out of the box complete features. And if they do, it will be no big deal, they will run on Nokia-MS ecosystem.
These people can already see "cool looking" devices from HTC & LG running WP7 but they are still decideing to by the Android equivalent.

Why just because it is a Nokia device will these people suddenly decide to start buying a WP7 device, i can't see Nokia is any "cooler" than HTC to most users?
 

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patlak is offline patlak
2011-07-07 , 17:52
Posts: 1,033 | Thanked: 1,013 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#102
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
You are worse than Mr Me and I Clown danramos. Who cares what YOU see? Of course every single thing regarding Nokia is in future potential right now. Have the Nokia stock values completely passed you by? WP already have more than 20 thousand apps, and is increasing by the minute. MS has a modern fully functional OS and ecosystem. More people use hotmail than gmail, much more. They have X-box with direct integration to the OS. And the only way to connect your device with a PC is by using MS Windows.

Most people have no idea who Elop is, and they couldn't care less. They see a cool looking device with Nokia and Microsoft logo being advertised with all they ever need pre-installed and on top of that, 30k apps (rapidly growing) to download. Sure an HTC or LG or Samsung will have similar devices, but not similar build quality, similar style and similar looks, similar camera quality, similar reception quality, similar sound quality, but most of all, nowhere near the out of the box complete features. And if they do, it will be no big deal, they will run on Nokia-MS ecosystem.
MS seems to be up your butt so deeply that you missed out completely on Nokia and their planned ecosystem. What Nokia had was pure win and it was all proprietary. MeeGo + Qt + Symbian + S40 + Ovi Store. It's Nokia's management that failed to deliver, it was all there. Now with WP7, you have to wait another half a year to receive a device from them. If you want WP7 so badly, buy it today, you'll get a taste of Nokia's future experience today and could have even experienced it a year ago. With no more Ovi Maps exclusivity, Nokia's devices will be no different from HTC. HTC are improving camera wise, have amazing build quality and offer more choice to the consumer.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-07 , 17:53
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#103
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
So what you are saying is that bigger screen always win Seriously, that is exactly what you are saying. So Nokia should protect their Ovi Map in case some other manufacturer releases a device with a larger screen.

As I said, you simply cannot understand this except on the basis of ecosystem. It is the services that makes money, the devices are only platforms for the services. Ovi Map = Nokia Service. I cannot think of a better way to extract $ from your competitors than putting your high valued service on his device.
If I am permitted to summarize what he's trying to say: "All things being equal with regards to services, advantage goes to the device with more or better features. Nokia has opted for the poorer hardware, even while trying to provide the same features that their competition already offers for free."

Originally Posted by patlak View Post
You either really don't get it, or are just an outrageously stubborn person. The larger screen was just an example. Nokia may offer a phone with a 4 inch screen while HTC, Samsung may offer with 4.3, 4.5 and 4.7 inch screens. That for someone could be the deciding factor. I am not saying the bigger screen might be better, but if somebody chose it over the 4 inch Nokia, it's a lost sale for Nokia. Additionally, Samsung may also be the first with a 20 megapixel camera, 3gb ram, HTC may be the first dual core WP7, etc which all matter to Average JOE. If all of those phones offer Ovi Maps, who do you think will gain? Software wise, you get the service that would have forced you earlier to buy a Symbian phone, but now they all have it. Nokia is at a loss. Offering that service was the one thing to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers (lifetime free offline and online voice guided navigation).
Considering he's relegated to personal attacks in lieu of an actual debate and intelligent conversation, I would suggest that perhaps he's actually BEING the troll he wishes to stigmatize others with opposing viewpoints to be. I suggest just letting it go and let your statements speak for themselves to the generally more intelligent readers. I know how hard it is to hold back and stop feeding such trolls.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 

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cjp is offline cjp
2011-07-07 , 18:16
Posts: 762 | Thanked: 395 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Helsinki
#104
@danramos: How come you always have the energy to read through these popcorn threads and make replies that actually make sense and take into account whats been said? Props to you, man.Keep up the good work -b
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Find me on Twitter: @creip

Please read my blog: "PeakMobility", which deals with MeeGo/Maemo, Windows Phone and mobile technology in general from a hedonistic user point-of-view: http://peakmob.blogspot.com/
 

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mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2011-07-07 , 18:44
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#105
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
You are worse than Mr Me and I Clown danramos. Who cares what YOU see? Of course every single thing regarding Nokia is in future potential right now. Have the Nokia stock values completely passed you by? WP already have more than 20 thousand apps, and is increasing by the minute. MS has a modern fully functional OS and ecosystem. More people use hotmail than gmail, much more. They have X-box with direct integration to the OS. And the only way to connect your device with a PC is by using MS Windows.

Most people have no idea who Elop is, and they couldn't care less. They see a cool looking device with Nokia and Microsoft logo being advertised with all they ever need pre-installed and on top of that, 30k apps (rapidly growing) to download. Sure an HTC or LG or Samsung will have similar devices, but not similar build quality, similar style and similar looks, similar camera quality, similar reception quality, similar sound quality, but most of all, nowhere near the out of the box complete features. And if they do, it will be no big deal, they will run on Nokia-MS ecosystem.
20 000 apps OMG!!!! I must get WP then so I can install all those apps!!
 

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gerbick
2011-07-07 , 19:10
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#106
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
You are worse than Mr Me and I Clown danramos. Who cares what YOU see?
There's more than one type of customer out there. People that love/bought the N900 were in a serious minority. Otherwise, things would not have been like they are presently.

No Elop at Nokia. No announcements from Samsung stating that they've sold 3 million Samsung Galaxy S II's in 55 (or less) days. No Microsoft deal with Nokia. Those are all connected... if the N900 or anything Maemo was remotely as popular as you lot think it was, then these discussions would not have happened.

So yeah... what danramos sees is what most other consumers that aren't blinded by fanaticism and/or ignorant to better options - the middle of this ignorant storm of consumerism is still enough room for people to know, have used, and can precisely critique Maemo for what it is, what it could have been, what it didn't accomplish.

I say that as a Maemo fan - still think Diablo was the first Maemo that made me a serious fan, although I had a 770 before it - and I can state easily that what you don't see... Maemo for all of its innovations was really a failure for Nokia.

Worse... it opened the door for yet another failure in the form of WP7 to waltz in and say "Well... we have a marketplace for music, videos, XBOX 360 and an official Twitter app and you do not..." and have that be a compelling argument against Maemo.

Maemo had years to establish itself as something prominent. Nokia floundered. Nokia faltered. Nokia restarted multiple times. And thusly, Nokia allowed the competition to redefine something they should have set the definition for.

If you cannot see that, then welcome to the part of the crowd where fanaticism disallows that.

Of course every single thing regarding Nokia is in future potential right now.
It's been like that since 2005. Time for potential to be applied. Or replaced. Sadly, it's been replaced with a shittier version of "potential" (read: WP7). Blame OPK. Elop is just making it worse - the decline started in 2007.

Have the Nokia stock values completely passed you by?
That's part of the whole "potential" part. Have you seen Microsoft's stock value? They've also dropped to something less than their glory days 11 years ago. Blame Ballmer. Bill Gates had that company at record levels.

WP already have more than 20 thousand apps, and is increasing by the minute. MS has a modern fully functional OS and ecosystem.
20k apps... ok. I have an HTC HD7S - and let me tell you. I don't have more than 20 apps on my phone. Not because I'm a lame user, I have 77 on my Android device(s). I have like 80 on my iOS device(s). And yet, I'm missing certain key apps on WP7 at the moment.

It's functional - so is Maemo. It's modern - so is Maemo. It has an ecosystem - ok, Maemo has sorta one... Ovi is half-baked for Maemo.

More people use hotmail than gmail, much more.
No arguments there. Yahoo is #2 - and Nokia had a contract with Yahoo for their mail.

Most people have no idea who Elop is, and they couldn't care less. They see a cool looking device with Nokia and Microsoft logo being advertised with all they ever need pre-installed and on top of that, 30k apps (rapidly growing) to download. Sure an HTC or LG or Samsung will have similar devices, but not similar build quality, similar style and similar looks, similar camera quality, similar reception quality, similar sound quality, but most of all, nowhere near the out of the box complete features. And if they do, it will be no big deal, they will run on Nokia-MS ecosystem.
Not knowing who Elop is doesn't excuse the fact that once you know who he is... you see the missteps by this current administration. But the problem is... most people are really unwilling to look back at OPK who let his campaigns - marketing, networking and device/ecosystem campaigns - go unsettled and largely unknown. Nobody knew what Nokia was doing. Still don't...

And to excuse it as "part of Nokia's culture" is straight dumb. Google has shown that if you engage your audiences, things like the Google IO conference can get people that don't know who you are, start to follow you, pay attention to what you say and be interested in what you do. Apple... Steve Jobs gets up there, sells the ever-living **** out of anything iOS. People eat it up... but guess what?

Nokia needs that too. Silence sells nothing. Wide open systems sell to people that think that it's important. I'm quite sure there's a percentage of the 1% of the desktop types care about that.

And it's famously less than the people that buy Android, Symbian, iOS and even WP7 - yep, it sold more than the last Maemo device. Sad, huh?

Regardless... being able to criticize yet can't take criticism for what you evangelize is unrealistic and incredibly biased.

Points at thread.
Last edited by gerbick; 2011-07-07 at 19:18.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-07 , 19:24
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#107
Actually, who still uses Hotmail and Yahoo mail besides spammers and fake accounts for spammers to spam? I have to admit that I haven't seen a single person tell me they use Hotmail or Yahoo mail in YEARS. I think I still see @aol.com addresses more often, and even those are a dwindling breed.

By the by, my gratitude to cjp, gerbick and many others with whom I've had many civil and intelligent discussions over the years and for the thanks and compliments. gerbick elaborated a lot of what I've been saying all along. Well said!
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Last edited by danramos; 2011-07-07 at 19:35.
 

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gerbick
2011-07-07 , 19:27
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#108
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Actually, who still uses Hotmail and Yahoo mail besides spammers and fake accounts for spammers to spam? I have to admit that I haven't seen a single tell me they use Hotmail or Yahoo mail in YEARS. I think I still see @aol.com addresses more often, and even those are a dwindling breed.
I keep a @live.com account - give it out to people I don't like. And I use it for my WP7 phone.
 

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umo120 is offline umo120
2011-07-07 , 19:37
Posts: 22 | Thanked: 42 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#109
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
You are worse than Mr Me and I Clown danramos. Who cares what YOU see? Of course every single thing regarding Nokia is in future potential right now. Have the Nokia stock values completely passed you by? WP already have more than 20 thousand apps, and is increasing by the minute. MS has a modern fully functional OS and ecosystem. More people use hotmail than gmail, much more. They have X-box with direct integration to the OS. And the only way to connect your device with a PC is by using MS Windows.
Yeah, so miraculously forcing hotmail users into WP phones, that is The Big Secret Strategy? It worked very well so far, current sales and user penetration of WP7 is the definite proof.

X-box integration is little bit less absurd idea, except that I wouldn't include it in the future potential category, it's more like wishful thinking. Maybe somebody someday will create killer app that takes advantage of unique MS xbox integration, but there isn't event hint of how this should look.

Right now Ovi has double of that, and because of the number of users on MS store, there are no quality developers, so most of this rapid growth is crap just to pump up numbers.

Sorry, I don't know what advantage is for Nokia to force it's customers into using MS Windows and how it enhances The Ecosystem.

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
Most people have no idea who Elop is, and they couldn't care less. They see a cool looking device with Nokia and Microsoft logo being advertised with all they ever need pre-installed and on top of that, 30k apps (rapidly growing) to download. Sure an HTC or LG or Samsung will have similar devices, but not similar build quality, similar style and similar looks, similar camera quality, similar reception quality, similar sound quality, but most of all, nowhere near the out of the box complete features. And if they do, it will be no big deal, they will run on Nokia-MS ecosystem.
Well, this isn't simple even if you have cool phone, fully functional modern OS with ecosystem and everything people need preinstaled, but as MS doesn't have any of that, it is just "what could be if" theorizing. BTW, besides ecosystem, Elop is also outsourcing design and manufacturing of new phone, so Nokia top HW and build quality is most probably thing of the past.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-07 , 19:38
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#110
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I keep a @live.com account - give it out to people I don't like. And I use it for my WP7 phone.
That sounds about right. Yup! I have a hotmail account that I'd made over a decade ago, before the Microsoft take-over and it remains there as my spam-well, just filling up with garbage after I got tired of dealing with the decaying, rotting state that Microsoft left it in.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
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