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| The Following User Says Thank You to bockersjv For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-03-11
, 19:15
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#1092
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Originally Posted by sondjata
It helps to be picky. USB data transfer, connector body distortion and other issues have come into the discussion here.
Stop being picky man. When we refer to the "USB Problem" we know full well that it means the habit of the USB port coming off the mobo. And I don't blame the poster one bit for being concerned that his $500 device could one day have a piece fall out, soon rendering it unusable. Particularly if it is his only device.
The poster didn't make it clear what his specific issue was, so I can't fault the motive behind the response.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-03-11
, 20:44
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Posts: 147 |
Thanked: 228 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Toronto, Canada
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#1093
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Originally Posted by bockersjv
I was thinking the same thing. It's always the people that have problems who complain, while those that don't encounter any issues will go about their business and ignore online polls.
It's hardly a habit or even an epidemic, given the number of units out there.. There is no way of knowing if your N900 will have this problem. This thread and community will need to keep an eye on it. But advising people who have just bought the N900 to return it just in case it might happen is going just a little to far IMHO.
And even if the N900 has a bad USB port design, there are a few things that can be done to either solve it or reduce the flaws.
1. NEVER try to insert the USB cables upside down. If it doesn't go in easily, STOP and look at what you're doing. Even if you haven't filed down the USB cable hooks, it should still insert with little pressure.
2. NEVER drop the phone while charging. I've seen plenty of other phones with their charging ports ripped off the system boards because they were dropped while charging. This is NOT a design issue, it's a user issue.
3. File down the hooks on the USB charger and data cable. This will NOT make the cables any less effective, while significantly reducing the force required to plug and unplug them. It's actually amazing how much less pressure it takes once those hooks are filed completely down. If I were to venture a guess based on how it feels (mind you, my hand is not an accurate measuring device), it's say the force required is about a third.
And now for the slightly paranoid among us (I'm one of them):
4a. Use epoxy to strengthen the USB port. I have a write-up how to do it. If you've taken other phones apart, it's really not difficult and it will give an extra insurance. I even tested the epoxy hold on other PCBs, and it takes much more force to unglue the epoxy than it does to rip off a surface mount component.
4b. You can also extend the contact patches of the USB port and resolder it to the system board. More technical and more dangerous than epoxy, but it will definitely strengthen the USB port. Combine this with epoxy and you're golden.
Even if you only follow steps 1,2 and 3, your N900 should survive daily use for a long time. Besides, keep in mind that the N900 is still a cell phone, and its value drops faster than subprime mortgage investments. Replacing it when (IF) it fails, even outside the warranty period, will not be expensive at all.
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2010-03-11
, 21:09
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Posts: 270 |
Thanked: 170 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Atlanta, GA + Oxford UK
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#1094
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EDIT: Clean up with a little less rage at the response to this
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The people complaining have looked at this thread. Noting the experience of Nokias customers.
How ever small the number of people with this issue. Compared to the number of units sold. Nokia has treated these customers very badly.
To criticise people for thinking that they may not be comfortable trusting Nokia to make good, if this happens to them. Seems to be an overzealous response from the community.
I am happy to have my phone back and willing to give Nokia another chance. But I am ever reminded that there are customers out there who know nothing of this site or the other discussions of the subject.
They have assumed that the Nokia care centres are answering their problem as Nokia specifies. This is a failure on Nokia's part. Nokia should be doing more to ensure this message gets out. And working to contact people who have been let down by their organization structure already.
I am very disconcerted at members of this community. Who choose to attack people. When they have a very genuine reason to be uncomfortable with the companies recent actions.
We have plenty of people failing to understand that the N900 is still basically a development platform. Bugs and limited features are to be expected.
When people have genuine reasons to mistrust the company. We look like then fan boys if we treat them the same way as the rest.
Nokia customers have genuine reasons to mistrust Nokia over this event.
Nokia has still failed to be upfront with the issue and tell us why we should expect our new devices to last out better then the ones that failed.
As such Nokia is the one that has to win back the trust of their customers.
Last edited by HumanPenguin; 2010-03-11 at 21:33.
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The people complaining have looked at this thread. Noting the experience of Nokias customers.
How ever small the number of people with this issue. Compared to the number of units sold. Nokia has treated these customers very badly.
To criticise people for thinking that they may not be comfortable trusting Nokia to make good, if this happens to them. Seems to be an overzealous response from the community.
I am happy to have my phone back and willing to give Nokia another chance. But I am ever reminded that there are customers out there who know nothing of this site or the other discussions of the subject.
They have assumed that the Nokia care centres are answering their problem as Nokia specifies. This is a failure on Nokia's part. Nokia should be doing more to ensure this message gets out. And working to contact people who have been let down by their organization structure already.
I am very disconcerted at members of this community. Who choose to attack people. When they have a very genuine reason to be uncomfortable with the companies recent actions.
We have plenty of people failing to understand that the N900 is still basically a development platform. Bugs and limited features are to be expected.
When people have genuine reasons to mistrust the company. We look like then fan boys if we treat them the same way as the rest.
Nokia customers have genuine reasons to mistrust Nokia over this event.
Nokia has still failed to be upfront with the issue and tell us why we should expect our new devices to last out better then the ones that failed.
As such Nokia is the one that has to win back the trust of their customers.
Last edited by HumanPenguin; 2010-03-11 at 21:33.
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2010-03-11
, 21:23
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#1095
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Originally Posted by cr0c0
I'm sure my wife won't mind when I get up and turn on the light so I can plug "that thing" in properly so I don't stress the connector before going to bed.
And even if the N900 has a bad USB port design, there are a few things that can be done to either solve it or reduce the flaws.
1. NEVER try to insert the USB cables upside down. If it doesn't go in easily, STOP and look at what you're doing. Even if you haven't filed down the USB cable hooks, it should still insert with little pressure.
2. NEVER drop the phone while charging. I've seen plenty of other phones with their charging ports ripped off the system boards because they were dropped while charging. This is NOT a design issue, it's a user issue.
It's those pesky darn accidents that always get you.3. File down the hooks on the USB charger and data cable. This will NOT make the cables any less effective, while significantly reducing the force required to plug and unplug them. It's actually amazing how much less pressure it takes once those hooks are filed completely down. If I were to venture a guess based on how it feels (mind you, my hand is not an accurate measuring device), it's say the force required is about a third.
And now for the slightly paranoid among us (I'm one of them):
4a. Use epoxy to strengthen the USB port. I have a write-up how to do it. If you've taken other phones apart, it's really not difficult and it will give an extra insurance. I even tested the epoxy hold on other PCBs, and it takes much more force to unglue the epoxy than it does to rip off a surface mount component.
4b. You can also extend the contact patches of the USB port and resolder it to the system board. More technical and more dangerous than epoxy, but it will definitely strengthen the USB port. Combine this with epoxy and you're golden.
Even if you only follow steps 1,2 and 3, your N900 should survive daily use for a long time. Besides, keep in mind that the N900 is still a cell phone, and its value drops faster than subprime mortgage investments. Replacing it when (IF) it fails, even outside the warranty period, will not be expensive at all.
All good advice, but I shouldn't have to immediately void my warranty, start modifying cables, changing habits, annoying my wife, etc just so I don't have to worry about being without my $500+ device that I become more dependent on every day.
Mind you, I filed the hooks completely off all my cables, I'm careful when I put the plug in, and will probably epoxy it (after the warranty expires, assuming it makes it that long). But I shouldn't have to do any of that.
Bear in mind that not everyone who has had this problem voted in this poll. Ultimately, we have no idea how widespread this is. Our community is just a small subset of all the N900's sold. Quadruple the number of people that took this poll ~2000, even if no more people have issues, that's still around 3% failure rate. That is unacceptable to me. I am very concerned that this could be an issue in the future no matter how careful I am. If I were looking to buy a N900 and was unsure, this would certainly give me pause.
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*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
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Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
| The Following User Says Thank You to lemmyslender For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-03-11
, 21:41
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Posts: 147 |
Thanked: 228 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Toronto, Canada
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#1096
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
Well, you shouldn't have to start charging it in the middle of the night. And what exactly are you doing up while your wife is already asleep? (Just kidding, I'm a night owl and had my share of arguments with my girlfriend about going to bed waaaay too late)
I'm sure my wife won't mind when I get up and turn on the light so I can plug "that thing" in properly so I don't stress the connector before going to bed.
Easier said than done
If the hooks weren't needed (or need to be as big) I'm sure they would save money and design the cables with smaller hooks, or without them, right?
And void your warranty in the process
All good advice, but I shouldn't have to immediately void my warranty, start modifying cables, changing habits, annoying my wife, etc just so I don't have to worry about being without my $500+ device that I become more dependent on every day.
Mind you, I filed the hooks completely off all my cables, I'm careful when I put the plug in, and will probably epoxy it (after the warranty expires, assuming it makes it that long). But I shouldn't have to do any of that.
Bear in mind that not everyone who has had this problem voted in this poll. Ultimately, we have no idea how widespread this is. Our community is just a small subset of all the N900's sold. Quadruple the number of people that took this poll ~2000, even if no more people have issues, that's still around 3% failure rate. That is unacceptable to me. I am very concerned that this could be an issue in the future no matter how careful I am. If I were looking to buy a N900 and was unsure, this would certainly give me pause.
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2010-03-11
, 21:51
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Posts: 270 |
Thanked: 170 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Atlanta, GA + Oxford UK
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#1097
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Originally Posted by cr0c0
I am sorry but in this context you are very wrong.
True, but accidents will kill pretty much anything. I sat on my very first Palm Pilot 5000, and cracked the screen. I guess I should have demanded Palm use diamond instead of glass.
I have had a N85 for 2+ years. And it has had many many accidents. I Connect to the USB port about 20 times a day in my car to charge it and connect it by usb to the stereo. It slides across the dash board swings off altogether in many cases gets pulled of the desk in a similar way to texrats device several times a year.
And worst of all was thrown off the dash board smashed into the car window then flew into the back of the car ripping the cable out of the car radio when I successfully parked My Acura integra under a Ford ranger truck at 35mph head on.
The car was a write off of course and all are fine.
And my driving skills are not the issue of this discussion.
The N85 on the other hand was my backup while my N900 was running back and forth to nokia.
The only thing that went wrong. I had to replace the back plate and the screen is a little scratched.
Now I will agree this is hard time for a phone. I am very impressed with the N85 and will keep it as the phone I use when I am not expected to treat it with care.
However phones by the very nature of being a mobile device need to be a little tougher then the average laptop. If dropping it a couple of feet with a USB cable in is enough to break it then no the device is not fit for purpose.
Last edited by HumanPenguin; 2010-03-11 at 21:59.
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2010-03-11
, 22:11
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Posts: 147 |
Thanked: 228 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Toronto, Canada
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#1098
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Originally Posted by HumanPenguin
I owned the N800, N810 and now the N900. To me the N900 is STILL an Internet Tablet, just one that now can also make phone calls. I guess I just treat it with more respect than I would a normal phone.
However phones by the very nature of being a mobile device need to be a little tougher then the average laptop. If dropping it a couple of feet with a USB cable in is enough to break it then no the device is not fit for purpose.
Of course I'd love the N900 to be as resilient as my old E71. But then the E71 and E72 can't do half the things the N900 can. So it's a trade-off that I personally can live with.
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2010-03-12
, 02:23
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Posts: 1,283 |
Thanked: 370 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ South Florida
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#1099
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Originally Posted by neilhwatson
I think the N900 has been promoted to step 4 in a 4 step process...
We are three months into this thread and weeks since Nokia said they would get the word out to their care centres. Even telegrams are faster than this. I don't think this is ineptitude but rather apathy. I suspect that the sales potential for the N900 is not big enough for Nokia to spend money on it. The N900 is 'step 4 in a 5 step process' according to Nokia. One might view that as the N900 being a prototype or a beta. Normally one does not fix a beta, one just makes a note of improvement for the production model.
It's entirely possible N900 owners have been hoodwinked into being Nokia's beta testers and paid Nokia for the privilege.
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N900 as a Drive Letter in Windows, FULL Root access!!
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N900 as a Drive Letter in Windows, FULL Root access!!
Maemo! There's a BUG for that!
Cutomize Maemo!
Noobies - Noobies 2 - Maemo 5 - 101
Maemo FAQ
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2010-03-12
, 02:28
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Posts: 18 |
Thanked: 14 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ anchorage, ak
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#1100
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In regards to returning the device because of not trusting Nokia, I can comment on the why.
I have a hard time believing at this point that, if I were to drop my phone without any significant damage and later have the USB port fall out, that my phone would be covered under warranty.
For a failure that basically makes the device unrepairable by a non-expert, I couldn't see taking the risk. I considered the DIY prevention but really, voiding my entire warranty to possibly prevent a problem that shouldn't occur in the first place makes no sense at all. Who knows what might be failing on the N900 in 8 months when something this basic is already failing? Why should I void my warranty and assume risk that Nokia already assumed? It'd be like choosing to buy a second limited 1 year warranty against defects for no reason at all other than because you don't think your first one is good enough. In that case, you should just have not bought the first one.
That, in essence, sums up my decision to return mine. I'm hoping for a redesign because it was a HARD decision to return it and I'd buy it again if it was fixed but ultimately, I need to know that I haven't just tossed $500 in the blender hoping the bills wouldn't get too torn up to tape back together.
No need to be hard on anyone just because they think it's a good decision. And there's definitely no reason anyone should have to be so gentle with a mobile device. I'm sure we all saw how durable the N900 was from the tehkseven videos (http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-...-pocket-tests/). I tend to expect all components on a device to be roughly the same durability. If my phone could be dropped from head height and be just fine, I would expect to be able to charge it since... you know... dropping it is abnormal but charging is. Also, any designer who decides that trying to plug a USB port in upside down by mistake is abnormal, he's kidding himself. Trying to plug a USB device in upside down is the second most common thing to do with it. (Yeah that was a joke but still). For americans, how many times do you try to plug in a polarized 120V plug into a jack upside down just to test it rather than look at it and decide to plug it in the correct direction? People expect to be able to do that and I can't see anyone saying it's wrong. Engineering against usage patterns is wrong.
Just my two cents.
I have a hard time believing at this point that, if I were to drop my phone without any significant damage and later have the USB port fall out, that my phone would be covered under warranty.
For a failure that basically makes the device unrepairable by a non-expert, I couldn't see taking the risk. I considered the DIY prevention but really, voiding my entire warranty to possibly prevent a problem that shouldn't occur in the first place makes no sense at all. Who knows what might be failing on the N900 in 8 months when something this basic is already failing? Why should I void my warranty and assume risk that Nokia already assumed? It'd be like choosing to buy a second limited 1 year warranty against defects for no reason at all other than because you don't think your first one is good enough. In that case, you should just have not bought the first one.
That, in essence, sums up my decision to return mine. I'm hoping for a redesign because it was a HARD decision to return it and I'd buy it again if it was fixed but ultimately, I need to know that I haven't just tossed $500 in the blender hoping the bills wouldn't get too torn up to tape back together.
No need to be hard on anyone just because they think it's a good decision. And there's definitely no reason anyone should have to be so gentle with a mobile device. I'm sure we all saw how durable the N900 was from the tehkseven videos (http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-...-pocket-tests/). I tend to expect all components on a device to be roughly the same durability. If my phone could be dropped from head height and be just fine, I would expect to be able to charge it since... you know... dropping it is abnormal but charging is. Also, any designer who decides that trying to plug a USB port in upside down by mistake is abnormal, he's kidding himself. Trying to plug a USB device in upside down is the second most common thing to do with it. (Yeah that was a joke but still). For americans, how many times do you try to plug in a polarized 120V plug into a jack upside down just to test it rather than look at it and decide to plug it in the correct direction? People expect to be able to do that and I can't see anyone saying it's wrong. Engineering against usage patterns is wrong.
Just my two cents.
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| Tags |
| bad design, broken, charging, failure, hardware, loose, microusb, microusb port, n900, nokia, part, port, repair, return, surface mount, usb, usb port, warranty |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 08:33.
As for being picky, there are other issues with USB. I meant to say which rather than what. I had charging and transfer issues that were solved with a re-flash, hence why I asked.