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	daperl	2012-05-07 , 04:18
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#1121

Originally Posted by rcolistete

As I have cited many times from my weekly experience on Android 3.2 or 4.0 (@ Asus Transformer TF-101) :
- open many web pages in default web browser or Opera, do anything else and come back, in some cases the open web pages are reloaded, open Youtube video is restarted, etc;
- open a PDF document with the many PDF readers (Adobe Acrobat, etc), do anything else and come back, then you have a chance of loosing your document state, starting again from page 1.

There are other cases (involving programming tools, etc), but I cite the 2 above because every typical user can experience them and be aware that THERE IS NO PROPER MULTITASKING IN ANDROID ! That's it. Simple. It is silly to the have dual/quad-core processors using a so limited mobile OS.

This is a complex topic and your oversimplification runs the risk of spreading FUD. We need more facts. I'm new to Android development, but over the next few months I'll probably be studying the ICS system level API's very closely. These are the kind of limits I like to push. If you have some more detailed information, great. Otherwise, your anecdotal evidence might not tell the whole story, and as I've already demonstrated to myself, there is some level of user space multi-tasking going on.

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	danramos	2012-05-07 , 09:28
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#1122

Originally Posted by zimon

Wow! I haven't seen Baghdad Bob in ages! I almost kind of miss his old comedy routines! They were comedy, right? I dunno--I laughed at his shows anyway.

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zimon	2012-05-07 , 10:01
Posts: 1,341 \| Thanked: 708 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#1123

Originally Posted by rcolistete

In reality, many softwares for Android aren't coded as you cited (using a separated service thread).

So Android doesn't have as good multitasking as Maemo/MeeGo.

But that also kind of proves the point, that "enforcing" policy, the way multitasking has been implemented in Android, is better.

We know programmers are lazy, and there is a vast forest of information and things and standards and good (tm) practices to remember when coding to some sophisticated system like for smart phone.

We have had problems also in Maemo, where developers "forget" to react to the situation when application goes background. Those kind of programs have ended up to the stable distribution though and have raised problems because of extra battery or RAM consumption.

As I wrote in the latter part of the post you quoted, Android style of guiding developers is enforcing one and overall is beneficial to the end user. Generally people are happier if phone is fast responsive and some lazy programmed applications do not run at all then in the background, than having applications which drain battery, RAM and other resources in the background for vain.

What it comes the mentioned (non-confirmed?) web-browser TAB:s reloading or PDF-viewer starting always from the page one when brought from background to the foreground in the Android system, there are obvious bugs in those programs - lazy or novice mobile programming again.

	pycage	2012-05-07 , 16:04
	Posts: 3,404 \| Thanked: 4,474 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany	#1124

Originally Posted by daperl

This is a complex topic and your oversimplification runs the risk of spreading FUD. We need more facts. I'm new to Android development, but over the next few months I'll probably be studying the ICS system level API's very closely. These are the kind of limits I like to push. If you have some more detailed information, great. Otherwise, your anecdotal evidence might not tell the whole story, and as I've already demonstrated to myself, there is some level of user space multi-tasking going on.

Oh, that is easy:
Since Android doesn't do proper multitasking, you as the app developer have to save state whenever I switch to another application, and restore it _quickly_ and _properly_ when I come back.
If I ever use your app on Android and don't get fooled into multitasking, I will come and beat the crap outta you!

So you better code for Maemo/MeeGo without all this silly save/restore state nonsense (ironically Nokia tried the same on the 770 with its limited RAM, but quickly got away from it).

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	pycage	2012-05-07 , 16:08
	Posts: 3,404 \| Thanked: 4,474 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany	#1125

What you're seeing as true multitasking in the Terminal is indeed true multitasking. Android allows to register background processes under certain circumstances. While your Terminal app gets suspended or killed, the shell itself runs in the background task.
Multitasking on Android is possible this way, but rather tedious and not fit for all cases.

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	daperl	2012-05-07 , 17:57
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#1126

Originally Posted by pycage

Since Android doesn't do proper multitasking, you as the app developer have to save state whenever I switch to another application, and restore it _quickly_ and _properly_ when I come back.
If I ever use your app on Android and don't get fooled into multitasking, I will come and beat the crap outta you!

I have a modest iOS development background, so I'm hoping I know what to expect here.

Originally Posted by pycage

What you're seeing as true multitasking in the Terminal is indeed true multitasking. Android allows to register background processes under certain circumstances. While your Terminal app gets suspended or killed, the shell itself runs in the background task. Multitasking on Android is possible this way, but rather tedious and not fit for all cases.

And that's the issue. In iOS, if you register a background process, that process can only run for a maximum of 10 minutes (WTF?). If ICS registered background processes don't have time limits, and it appears that they don't, that's a big difference.

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	pycage	2012-05-07 , 19:07
	Posts: 3,404 \| Thanked: 4,474 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany	#1127

Originally Posted by mikecomputing

I am sure many here will buy MicroNokia Window8 tablets in some year when Nokia is back in bussiness in a new name Microsoft.

They won't multitask either. Metro apps on Windows 8, even on PCs, don't multitask (at least they don't in the Consumer Preview). You can run at maximum two apps side by side. All other Metro apps get suspended or killed.

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rcolistete	2012-05-07 , 20:40
Posts: 1,269 \| Thanked: 3,961 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil	#1128

Originally Posted by daperl

@zimon

Looks like ICS can do "real" multi-tasking to me. Thanks to a danramos suggestion, I downloaded an Android app called "Terminal IDE," and here's what I ran on my Galaxy Nexus:

When we leave an software running on Android, it can be suspended or not, depending on how many other softwares are open, how they use RAM, etc.

So, try your shell multitasking test during other cases, with more open (and heavy) softwares, etc.

Maybe Terminal IDE implements a good service so it's saved from being suspended.

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rcolistete	2012-05-07 , 20:55
Posts: 1,269 \| Thanked: 3,961 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil	#1129

Originally Posted by gerbick

Did the smarter OS sell well enough to make the dumber OS not an option?

Here's a hint: no.

When I say dumbed down OS is due to removed interesting features usually found on previous OS (mobile or not), even when there were a lot less hardware resources. For example, EPOC 32 OS, from 13 years ago, is a lot better in stability and multitasking than almost all current mobile OS.

If the majority of people buy some type of a car, or support a soccer team, etc, I am not obliged to do the same.

I have freedom, so I have chosen Nokia N810, N900 and N9, as almost all of us. I don't care if there are 10^12 iOS users and 10^6 Maemo/MeeGo users. I care about quality, not quantity. IMHO, the Maemo/MeeGo community is a lot better than Android, iOS and Symbian community.

I haven't used Symbian (Nokia 7650, Nokia 9290, N-Gage, Nokia 9500, N95, E71) because there were millions of other Symbian users. It was due to its features, including multitasking, and its roots, from EPOC 32.

rcolistete	2012-05-07 , 21:06
Posts: 1,269 \| Thanked: 3,961 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil	#1130

Originally Posted by daperl

This is a complex topic and your oversimplification runs the risk of spreading FUD. We need more facts. I'm new to Android development, but over the next few months I'll probably be studying the ICS system level API's very closely. These are the kind of limits I like to push. If you have some more detailed information, great. Otherwise, your anecdotal evidence might not tell the whole story, and as I've already demonstrated to myself, there is some level of user space multi-tasking going on.

Spreading FUD ???

Every Android user I have personally asked has experienced the same simple problems that I've cited, using Android 2.2, 2.3, 3.2 or 4.0. Problems to read a document or a site, to watch a Youtube movie, after switching to other softwares for some time and coming back.

These (lack of real) multitasking problems doesn't happen in 100% of the cases, let's say 10-20%. So, for a day of heavy use it can happen sometimes.