Battery Tests, Homemade 3000mAh XL Battery & Q&A (POST #1) - New Layout - Page 114 - maemo.org

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	dr_frost_dk	2012-02-09 , 10:41
	Posts: 1,503 \| Thanked: 2,688 times \| Joined on Oct 2010 @ Denmark	#1131

Mugen in the house, testing has begun

Results will be ready in minimum 8 hours, have to put some cycles on the battery.

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geneven	2012-02-09 , 11:45
Posts: 5,795 \| Thanked: 3,151 times \| Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif	#1132

FWIW: The Mugen folks have seemed trustworthy to me. I have been dealing with them since the N810. There was some hassle making a purchase from them once, but it was resolved.

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	dr_frost_dk	2012-02-09 , 16:05
	Posts: 1,503 \| Thanked: 2,688 times \| Joined on Oct 2010 @ Denmark	#1133

This post is going to be on the progress on the Mugen XL battery's capacity test.
It is tested like all other battery's i tested, test is done with 2x discharge at 800mA & 200mA, the discharge total mAh (800mA + 200mA) is the one that's reported in post #1.
800mA for general discharge (HIGH but in the area of what our N900 is capable of), and 200mA for just getting the last mAh out of the battery's, generally 10-30mAh depending on battery size.
Also note that ALL battery's have shown the HIGHEST mAh on the 1'th cycle, this is also reflected in the official graphs of various LiPo, Li-ion and LiFe battery's.

Now the mugen battery, well 1'th discharge does not fare well.
At 800mA im only getting 2203mAh...
At 200mA i got 32mAh
And like all other's i always round down so 2235 becomes 2230mAh, and in retrospect to 1'th charge always is the best this does not fare well indeed for the mugen's advertised capacity of 2400mAh, but lets get to cycle 3 as usual before calling it.

2'th charge:
0.8A = 2219
0.2A = 30
Now it would seem as the battery has gained abit of capacity here, but i have really charged it to the MAX witch is more then normal just to give this battery the BEST case to get it closer to the 2400mAh mark, but it now sits at 2240mAh (2249mAh), for the 3'th charge im going to charge it normally, and this will no doubt show the same mAh as charge 1.
Now even with the MAX charge it still is 160mAh from it's target, im really sorry to break the bobble of you than cannot see the advantage of making your own Dual battery, and just buying this battery, the 2x christgift that i made (REALLY CHEAP) had 2500mAh+

3'th Charge:
0.8A = 2210
0.2A = 34
So that's 2240mAh (2244) again.

4'th Charge:
This will be with another charger just to rule out that possibility, when i contact mugen they cannot say error on my part then.
I don't expect to see any difference at all on the 4'th charge, only a small decrease since the normal charger that have been used for ALL battery tests is VERY accurate when looking at the battery's tested.
0.8A = 2168
0.2A = 29
Final on the other charger is 2190mAh (2197)

---------------------------------------------

I will be contacting mugen and asking if they can really standby their battery when it cannot even live up to the perfetic 2400mAh that it should.
But before that im going to do a 4'th charge on another charger just to make absolutely sure that the culprit is not the old charger that have tested ALL other battery's.

Fix you USB before and after it breaks
Feel free to contact me through PM, Skype or G.Talk

Last edited by dr_frost_dk; 2012-02-10 at 19:07.

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Darkice	2012-02-09 , 19:23
Posts: 23 \| Thanked: 2 times \| Joined on Jan 2012 @ Bulgaria, Varna	#1134

Dear friends,
I have followed the tread from Estel http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=846 how to measure the capacity with bq27200.sh
I have done all the commands, I have moved the file in /usr/bin but It still giving me bq27200.sh: Permission denied.
I red all the pages of the tread here. Trying all the possibilities with /usr/sbin etc. but no success. Probably I am missing something. Is there some special packages needed to start bq27200.sh script?
Mainly I want to recalibrate the phone, because I am fed up watching the how it is showing the % of charge/discharge in wrong way.

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	dr_frost_dk	2012-02-09 , 22:18
	Posts: 1,503 \| Thanked: 2,688 times \| Joined on Oct 2010 @ Denmark	#1135

what % are you referring to? my meter or the inbuilt system

Fix you USB before and after it breaks
Feel free to contact me through PM, Skype or G.Talk

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Darkice	2012-02-09 , 22:39
Posts: 23 \| Thanked: 2 times \| Joined on Jan 2012 @ Bulgaria, Varna	#1136

Sorry if I did not explain clearly. I mean that even the batt is fully charged the batt widget says it is 93,5% (it actually vary from 92% to 96%). I tough it is like that because I bought the phone second hand and the original batt lost part of it's capacity. But last week I have received new Japod from DX and the situation is the same. I am not so keen in measuring the capacity but to recalibrate the chip to give the correct info.
What I am doing wrong that this script is giving me "Permission denied" answer? Where to check or what to check?

P.S. I did not use your Battery meter, because I can't understand what should I do according to your explanation "And import beecon in QBW".

Last edited by Darkice; 2012-02-09 at 22:49. Reason: to add some more info

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	dr_frost_dk	2012-02-10 , 00:44
	Posts: 1,503 \| Thanked: 2,688 times \| Joined on Oct 2010 @ Denmark	#1137

Well you apparently have to read up on one of the coolest tools we have called "Queen Beecon Widget" (QBW), my meter is homemade and will show the REAL % left, but as for not hitting 100% that is due to 100% being 4.23V and normal charging often only goes to 4.20V, now the last couple of % is not really going to mean much, we are talking maybe 3 minutes more runtime.

If you want more runtime btw, i suggest getting a Scud battery.

Fix you USB before and after it breaks
Feel free to contact me through PM, Skype or G.Talk

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magick777	2012-02-10 , 01:26
Posts: 167 \| Thanked: 204 times \| Joined on Jul 2010	#1138

Originally Posted by Darkice

Dear friends,
I have followed the tread from Estel http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=846 how to measure the capacity with bq27200.sh
I have done all the commands, I have moved the file in /usr/bin but It still giving me bq27200.sh: Permission denied.
I red all the pages of the tread here. Trying all the possibilities with /usr/sbin etc. but no success. Probably I am missing something. Is there some special packages needed to start bq27200.sh script?
Mainly I want to recalibrate the phone, because I am fed up watching the how it is showing the % of charge/discharge in wrong way.

Did you make the script executable?

# chmod 755 bq27200.sh
# ./bq27200.sh

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Old Abe	2012-02-10 , 01:48
Posts: 74 \| Thanked: 68 times \| Joined on Dec 2011	#1139

Originally Posted by dr_frost_dk

This post is going to be on the progress on the Mugen XL battery's capacity test.
It is tested like all other battery's i tested, test is done with 2x discharge at 800mA & 200mA, the discharge total mAh (800mA + 200mA) is the one that's reported in post #1.
800mA for general discharge (HIGH but in the area of what our N900 is capable of), and 200mA for just getting the last mAh out of the battery's, generally 10-30mAh depending on battery size.
Also note that ALL battery's have shown the HIGHEST mAh on the 1'th cycle, this is also reflected in the official graphs of various LiPo, Li-ion and LiFe battery's.

Now the mugen battery, well 1'th discharge does not fare well.
At 800mA im only getting 2203mAh...
At 200mA i got 32mAh
And like all other's i always round down so 2235 becomes 2230mAh, and in retrospect to 1'th charge always is the best this does not fare well indeed for the mugen's advertised capacity of 2400mAh, but lets get to cycle 3 as usual before calling it.

2'th charge:
0.8A = 2219
0.2A = 30
Now it would seem as the battery has gained abit of capacity here, but i have really charged it to the MAX witch is more then normal just to give this battery the BEST case to get it closer to the 2400mAh mark, but it now sits at 2240mAh (2249mAh), for the 3'th charge im going to charge it normally, and this will no doubt show the same mAh as charge 1.
Now even with the MAX charge it still is 160mAh from it's target, im really sorry to break the bobble of you than cannot see the advantage of making your own Dual battery, and just buying this battery, the 2x christgift that i made (REALLY CHEAP) had 2500mAh+

3'th Charge:
0.8A =
0.2A =

---------------------------------------------

I will be contacting mugen and asking if they can really standby their battery when it cannot even live up to the perfetic 2400mAh that it should.
But before that im going to do a 4'th charge on another charger just to make absolutely sure that the culprit is not the old charger that have tested ALL other battery's.

Pretty disappointing. The battery really should be at least 2400mAh and not just because they claim that (although that is the least you should expect considering) but because of the typical charge that is found in batteries of the Mugen size. Given that the average is about 1250mAh for a battery that fits in the N900, and the Mugen is twice the size of the original, you should really expect 2500 mAh from it. Anything over that would be excellent, but not expected.

Unfortunately, assuming your tests are coming along accurately, the battery is approximately 2240mAh. When you also factor that the cost is 5-6 times a standard battery you really lose any credibility in value.

I would have been happy if the battery hit 2500mAh or above. As it is, it doesn't even hold the indicated capacity. Mugen should be ashamed.

I have had the Mugen for about three days. Given that my former battery was quite old, the Mugen effectively doubled the battery life I was getting - but that of course has no bearing on the quality of the battery. I will be sending Mugen some complaints and requests to change there stated capacity once Dr. Frost confirms his findings. I suggest that any Mugen owners do the same.

Yours truly,

Abe

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magick777	2012-02-10 , 02:13
Posts: 167 \| Thanked: 204 times \| Joined on Jul 2010	#1140

Originally Posted by Old Abe

Pretty disappointing. The battery really should be at least 2400mAh and not just because they claim that (although that is the least you should expect considering) but because of the typical charge that is found in batteries of the Mugen size. Given that the average is about 1250mAh for a battery that fits in the N900, and the Mugen is twice the size of the original, you should really expect 2500 mAh from it. Anything over that would be excellent, but not expected.

I want to throw another variable into the mix, which is how long the cells have been in storage. A Li-ion battery, charged to full and stored at 25 degrees, can be expected to lose (permanently) up to about ~20% of its capacity over 12 months. With no new N900s shipping, I suspect most of the people who are going to buy Mugen batteries have bought them, I imagine they're perhaps not as "freshly made" as they were. It's entirely credible that they built your batteries using cells that were indeed fully 1200mAH, six months ago. By extension, this favours the after-market Chinese manufacturers (Scud) who are probably seeing more demand and are therefore shipping their cells at a month or two old.

Either way, the measured capacity is the measured capacity and it doesn't exactly favour buying Mugen - but I suspect that the problem may be as much about age of stock as of fundamental misrepresentation of capacity...

Edited to add... +1 to the Scud - my 6 month old Scud tested at 1425mAh the other day and gives, as you would expect, a 10-20% increase over original BL-5J.

Last edited by magick777; 2012-02-10 at 02:20.