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railroadmaster is offline railroadmaster
2010-09-18 , 17:26
Posts: 1,082 | Thanked: 1,235 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#111
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
If I don't install it, suddenly I'm denied access to a huge amount of content on the web. It reminds me of 2002-2007, when sites would block and deny access to non-IE browsers.


This has nothing to do with what I am developing with, but what I encounter when browsing the web.


Gaming was always satisfying on the Gameboy portables. Video streaming isn't dissatisfying, but new.


Well sure, no argument there.


What? That's a completely irrelevant point.


Except that with browsers like Chromium and Firefox, not only are they open source but they can be fixed and redeployed much faster than "whenever Adobe feels like it" or better, "without having to negotiate royalties with Adobe over it."
Well you are right you can't view a great deal of Web content, but then again there are a great deal of Websites that require you to install Java, DivX Web Player, Quicktime, Windows Media Player, or Silverlight. Sorry I should make something clear playing games and streaming video on device like a phone/Internet Tablets/ PDA has been very dissatisfying and that is true. Your wrong to compare Adobe to Microsoft because they don't force you to view content on one Browser and One operating system.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-09-18 , 17:31
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#112
Originally Posted by railroadmaster View Post
Well you are right you can't view a great deal of Web content, but then again there are a great deal of Websites that require you to install Java, DivX Web Player, Quicktime, Windows Media Player, or Silverlight.
And it doesn't excuse any of them. Well, Java maybe because it's actually not wholly proprietary.

Sorry I should make something clear playing games and streaming video on device like a phone/Internet Tablets/ PDA has been very dissatisfying and that is true.
It's also an entirely new field, seeing as how it's only been in the last 3 years that people have seriously pursued doing as such.

Your wrong to compare Adobe to Microsoft because they don't force you to view content on one Browser and One operating system.
But they do require I use their proprietary software, and if they suddenly decide to not support my system for whatever reason, I'm instantly locked out with zero recourse.
 

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Sopwith is offline Sopwith
2010-09-18 , 17:54
Posts: 337 | Thanked: 283 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ NYC
#113
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
And it doesn't excuse any of them. Well, Java maybe because it's actually not wholly proprietary.


It's also an entirely new field, seeing as how it's only been in the last 3 years that people have seriously pursued doing as such.


But they do require I use their proprietary software, and if they suddenly decide to not support my system for whatever reason, I'm instantly locked out with zero recourse.
Excuse me for jumping into your argument, but aren't you discussing two different albeit related things: whether Flash is good for users, and whether it is good for developers. The reason you're locked out of half the Internet and feel forced to use the proprietary Flash is because developers have chosen to use it. So when you want to drive Flash out, you want to dictate to the developers what tools they should use. Well, I say, you can do that only by choosing websites developed with the tools you prefer. But you should also be able to accept that other end users may choose differently, and thus Flash may survive longer than you want.

It would have been so much more convenient if we all thought exactly the same, wouldn't it?
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Grok is offline Grok
2010-09-18 , 18:15
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#114
Bring out your dead!

Credit to Monty Python and Search for the Holy Grail
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-09-18 , 18:30
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#115
Originally Posted by Sopwith View Post
Excuse me for jumping into your argument, but aren't you discussing two different albeit related things: whether Flash is good for users, and whether it is good for developers. The reason you're locked out of half the Internet and feel forced to use the proprietary Flash is because developers have chosen to use it. So when you want to drive Flash out, you want to dictate to the developers what tools they should use.
Is it bad that people have forced developers to move away from IE6 focused websites and tools, and on to platform independent, standards compliant tools? I daresay that the web has progressed significantly since IE6's hold on users was loosened by Firefox, and has exploded since people started using Safari, Chrome, and Opera as well.

It would have been so much more convenient if we all thought exactly the same, wouldn't it?
I know, then we would never have needed to move beyond IE6.
 

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daperl is offline daperl
2010-09-18 , 18:46
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#116
Originally Posted by Sopwith View Post
Excuse me for jumping into your argument, but aren't you discussing two different albeit related things: whether Flash is good for users, and whether it is good for developers. The reason you're locked out of half the Internet and feel forced to use the proprietary Flash is because developers have chosen to use it. So when you want to drive Flash out, you want to dictate to the developers what tools they should use. Well, I say, you can do that only by choosing websites developed with the tools you prefer. But you should also be able to accept that other end users may choose differently, and thus Flash may survive longer than you want.
I'm both a user and a developer, and it's bad for both of me. It's not the tools, it's the product. Use whatever tools you want, just produce "code" that's compliant with some sort of open initiative governing spec. Otherwise, burn in Hell.

It would have been so much more convenient if we all thought exactly the same, wouldn't it?
You're so right, let's have everything different and proprietary. Sign me up!
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gerbick
2010-09-18 , 19:11
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#117
I'm still waiting on a full, 100% replacement to Flash that's going to come from the open source community.

I've been waiting since FutureSplash Animator came out... which later became Flash.

It hasn't happened yet.
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-09-18 , 19:42
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#118
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
It hasn't happened yet.
Of course not. Flash is a moving target, and there's better and more cross-platform things to spend effort working on.

It's sorta like all the projects to emulate Microsoft technologies. They're good for bare minimum compatibility, but not serious attempts at compatibility as your target is constantly moving. This leaves you permanently behind (which is where MS/Adobe want you) and you're only reinforcing their platform.

I'm sure Adobe would be unhappy if a free alternative to their plugin came along. All those uppity mobile device users might think they should be able to use Flash without the handset maker paying $BIGNUM in licensing fees.
 
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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2010-09-18 , 20:25
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#119
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I'm still waiting on a full, 100% replacement to Flash that's going to come from the open source community.

I've been waiting since FutureSplash Animator came out... which later became Flash.

It hasn't happened yet.
I don't know if this is on topic or not...

That's actually quite interesting. Now that the latest swf file spec is well documented, and the AS3's libraries have been exposed, I'm surprised that there's not a popular OS flash alternative (forgive me if there is).

AISI (as I see it) flash suffers from an identity problem. On the one hand it's a robust, extremely powerful, and VERY FAST environment for general development. Even today, it remains unchallenged in this regard (yes, HTML5, I'm talking to you). However, it's known mostly for annoying internet advertisements or the dreaded all-flash websites. Despite it's usefulness (and you're lying to yourself or simply ignorant if you don't think it's useful), it commonly insulted based on this fact -- which is unfortunate. Flash is easily more common and consistent than Java on the web and used effectively to solve MANY different problems. Here are a few:

1) realtime 3D rendering
2) bringing standards to non-compatible browsers (ie. IE)
3) network socket programming
4) Sound rendering and playback
5) Video/Audio streaming

Perhaps its lack of popularity with the OS community is reason for not producing a robust OS alternative... Perhaps there is a working alternative for AS3 that I'm not aware of...
 

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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2010-09-18 , 20:29
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#120
Doh! I spoke too soon! Here's an active project that supports AS3. Impressive...

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/lightspark
http://allievi.sssup.it/techblog/

It looks to be slowly improving library support.
 
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