Do you want INSTALL FROM FILE back? - Page 12 - maemo.org

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 22:06
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#111

Originally Posted by wmarone

I must have missed it, what functionality did removing Red Pill mode take away?

The ability to install a deb file when the user cannot get rootsh. Meaning the Application manager does not work or the repositories do not work or apt-get is broke.. etc.

You cannot run "dpkg -i rootsh.deb" as a user.. you have to be root first, and rootsh is what gives you root. So without the ability to install rootsh, and no red pill mode, you are stuck.

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wmarone	2010-01-12 , 22:12
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#112

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

The ability to install a deb file when the user cannot get rootsh. Meaning the Application manager does not work or the repositories do not work or apt-get is broke.. etc.

So you wish they had retained the ability to install packages when the package management system is broken? I fail to see how this is a good thing except if you're trying to see how broken you can get your system.

you have to be root first, and rootsh is what gives you root.

So you're forced to switch to root explicitly before engaging in out of band, potentially hazardous actions? I'm okay with this.

So without the ability to install rootsh, and no red pill mode, you are stuck.

I don't see how you're stuck, if you know what you're doing. And if you think installing debs directly with dpkg -i is in any way normal or good in an apt-based package management system, I can't help but think you don't.

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 22:13
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#113

You didn't read the thread.

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wmarone	2010-01-12 , 22:17
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#114

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

You didn't read the thread.

I read the thread. The complaints don't make sense.

Ignoring whatever uber abilities Red Pill granted, we have something more like the Ubuntu package system. I fail to see the problem.

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egoshin	2010-01-12 , 22:18
Posts: 992 \| Thanked: 995 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ California	#115

Huh? How exactly are you, me, or even the super-god of computers going to help someone that has no root, and no way to install rootsh?

You can ask Apple... or DVD Concorcium for examples. There is old predicate - each program has at least one bug.

But I can't say you more at this time, I usually work on other side of problem.

The number of users willing to type commands is significantly less than the number of users willing to click GUI's.

Stop, stop! Red pill was NOT a generic GUI! It actually was more hidden then root shell pack. Even me took a time to find out WHY I can't see bluez-hcidump after AKlapper asked me to install it. He didn't bother with explanation how to, so I was forced to browse around and learn a .deb packaging a little.

Or you want to say that magic word M is very well known and is written on web site banner?

Last edited by egoshin; 2010-01-12 at 22:24.

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 22:20
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#116

@wmarone,
Ugh.

Here we go again.

There is a common problem with apt that is experienced across all system. If you have a flakey network connection and try to update your repositories you can potentially corrupt list files inside /var/lib/apt/lists. These files are used by apt only but they will also break your Application Manager. 1 simple command will fix this... delete those files. They will be rebuilt when you update your cache again.

You need root to delete those files. If a normal user runs into this problem they may never have known or cared to use root and never installed Rootsh. Their ONLY option now is a reflash that could have been avoided if we could get rootsh installed on their device.

Please refer to the thread that I linked to two pages back.

There are legitimate reasons for apt or app manager to not work - and the use of dpkg to be retained. And please see again what I said:

and it's a case that *has* happened, so it's not a hypothetical case either. The only question would remain is how *often* it would happen, and whether it's even worth worrying about.

If you read the thread.. you certainly didn't comprehend some major portions of it.

Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-01-12 at 22:23.

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 22:22
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#117

Originally Posted by egoshin

You can ask Apple... or DVD Concorcium for examples. There is old predicate - each program has at least one bug.

But I can't say you more at this time, I usually work on other side of problem.

You're talking about hacking or exploiting the device. I don't know if you're just trying to sound cool.. or serious - it doesn't matter.

I would rather reflash to fix my problem then hand it over to someone who wants to run an exploit to get me root.

NO thank you.

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wmarone	2010-01-12 , 22:27
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#118

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

There is a common problem with apt that is experienced across all system. If you have a flakey network connection and try to update your repositories you can potentially corrupt list files inside /var/lib/apt/lists. These files are used by apt only but they will also break your Application Manager. 1 simple command will fix this... delete those files.

Sounds like a serious bug, but Red Pill mode is -not- required to fix this.

Application Manager should respond appropriately to this situation and fix it automatically without user input. I'd rather not have to talk someone into activating a dirty hack mode or (worse) through using the command line to fix it.

Perhaps instead of banging on about Red Pill mode we should file a bug report.

If you read the thread.. you certainly didn't comprehend some major portions of it.

I comprehended it fully. Red Pill mode was mostly a tool for doing non-standard, out of band things and had one useful purpose that exposes something that should be handled elsewhere.

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fatalsaint	2010-01-12 , 22:31
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#119

Originally Posted by wmarone

Application Manager should respond appropriately to this situation and fix it automatically without user input. I'd rather not have to talk someone into activating a dirty hack mode or (worse) through using the command line to fix it.

Perhaps instead of banging on about Red Pill mode we should file a bug report.

That's just one example though. The possibility to happen in some other way is there. Also, say I get my N900 but I don't have cell service, SIM card, or whatever and I'm not by a wireless device. But I do have deb files on my laptop, or maybe I'm writing my own app for it.. there is no way, until I connect to wifi, to install my packages, or any other packages I want.

Granted, again, the question becomes how often things like this would happen. Allowing root, but only allowing it if you get to the internet, is silly.

I comprehended it fully. Red Pill mode was mostly a tool for doing non-standard, out of band things and had one useful purpose that exposes something that should be handled elsewhere.

You are correct.. and you'll notice I was in support of removing Red Pill mode. But I do *not* like that Red Pill mode was the *only* alternative to installing a separate package to gaining at least some control of my system. My terminal should already give me everything Red Pill does. At this point in time.. it does not - I have to install something else for that. Without Red Pill, it opens the door to a potential problem - that has already happened at least once.

I'm not saying "Bring Red Pill back".. I'm saying that either Root should be out of box.. or "install from file" be added like this Poll is about. Installing a package from file wasn't the only *one* thing Red Pill did.

Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-01-12 at 22:36.

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mozr	2010-01-12 , 22:33
Posts: 20 \| Thanked: 7 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#120

Isn't non-standard part and parcel of an open source system?

Is the n900 a high end open source tablet with mobile phone capabilities, or is it a direct competitor to the iphone (user friendly, none techy device)?