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vkv.raju is offline vkv.raju
2010-12-27 , 19:49
Posts: 402 | Thanked: 451 times | Joined on Dec 2007 @ India
#111
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I don't share the same faith; however I do understand. Maemo 5 eclipsed Maemo 4.1 in all ways (almost). So hopefully the progression continues.

I see what you're saying... but I can't agree. Maemo has been around on tablets since 2005. The addition of the telephony bits should have been handled better since... well, it's Nokia.

To be honest - and mind you, I'm honestly enjoying discussing things with you, as always - I think that MeeGo is progressing nicely... but it's the avenues to get information that bother me. I would love to hear information from Nokia directly. Not by people with periphery connections to Nokia/MeeGo. Seeing demos are great; hearing from Nokia that they've kept a platform moving forward and how it will be deployed would be great.

That's no disservice to the Quim's, Texrat's et al... but the communication about MeeGo is too scattered. News about HP's take on WebOS comes from HP directly. Blackberry and their QNX derived Playbook comes directly from Blackberry.

MeeGo's communication? Random folks, random countries, random events that I hear about usually a few days before they start or after they've ended. Won't lie... perhaps I'm just looking in the wrong place(s). I don't mind shouldering that blame.

100% agree. Quoted for emphasis.

I can't consider that a full-blown implementation yet though. It's getting there, but as far as it stands, it's unfinished. I fear that if I were to review an unfinished product, I'll end up in the same boat as Eldar - much maligned and complaining about things that are "yet to come".

I love open source. Champion it daily in my work - all but Adobe Flash/Flex that is. But at the same time, the whole "design by committee" approach can yield bad results in some open source projects. All I can do is just hope that MeeGo is as embraced as I think it should be. But to assume too much right now, when all it takes is to educate folks better straight from the sources mouth (read: Nokia) then the assumptions get lesser, the anticipation gets even higher and we're more in the loop for being a community that's behind their products.

Something is amiss. It's communication. It's not anticipation.

Again, 100% agree.

I don't agree here. They're a viable player, but not one I'd say will dominate. Not yet.

And here, my friend... we agree. Thanks for discussing and clarifying your earlier statements. It is much appreciated.
I understand that you are somewhat disappointed about the lack of communication/information directly from Nokia. But this has always been the case with them. They have always chosen to speak less. That's their style. We can't help!

With regards to (Eldar) reviewing unfinished products, well, I prefer not talking about it now.

The way I understand MeeGo is that it is majorly a Nokia/intel initiative but with them encouraging direct community involvement. I could be wrong but I am guessing that it would be almost 80% of the people (including employees & contractors) that would be paid by either Nokia or Intel. This as you would agree is way better than leaving everything to the community.

Now, I still would like to maintain that MeeGo+Qt+Symbian would offer a very compelling product to both the developers and the end-users. This combination has the potential to be very big and I don't want Nokia to tamper around with this well thought-out plan of theirs.
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frostbyte is offline frostbyte
2010-12-27 , 20:13
Posts: 293 | Thanked: 373 times | Joined on Jul 2010 @ Westside
#112
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Nokia has money. The money "lost" is nothing compared to their money they've earned. I think the stockholders are just unhappy with the direction, not their pockets (not fully).
Exactly. Nokia's revenue has had an upward trend, meanwhile profits have declined.
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frostbyte is offline frostbyte
2010-12-27 , 20:22
Posts: 293 | Thanked: 373 times | Joined on Jul 2010 @ Westside
#113
Originally Posted by vkv.raju View Post
I understand that you are somewhat disappointed about the lack of communication/information directly from Nokia. But this has always been the case with them. They have always chosen to speak less. That's their style. We can't help!
Nokia is putting an extra effort of not announcing/communicating releases too early. From a Finnish company, run by Finns (well, ok apart from the absolute top brass), a culture where day-to-day communication between individuals can be condensed into one sentence?

So the "not too early" communication strategy by Nokia is mostly going to go like this:

- Oh, you got the device already? How did you get one, we didn't market it? Well, I suppose, since it's out now, here's what we've done with it...
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danramos is offline danramos
2010-12-27 , 21:04
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#114
Originally Posted by frostbyte View Post
Nokia is putting an extra effort of not announcing/communicating releases too early. From a Finnish company, run by Finns (well, ok apart from the absolute top brass), a culture where day-to-day communication between individuals can be condensed into one sentence?
So you're claiming that Nokia or Finns are anti-social? Don't dress up stupid decisions as a cultural norm.
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ericsson is offline ericsson
2010-12-27 , 23:48
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#115
Originally Posted by vkv.raju View Post
Now, I still would like to maintain that MeeGo+Qt+Symbian would offer a very compelling product to both the developers and the end-users. This combination has the potential to be very big and I don't want Nokia to tamper around with this well thought-out plan of theirs.
I agree, sort of, the potential is there. But where is any of this? Where is Qt for Symbian? where is MeeGo? where is a MeeGo device? This holy triunity of MeeGo+Qt+Symbian is nowhere to be seen. The only things that exist are Symbian and Qt, and they have existed for decades, with no roots in Nokia at all. There is Qt for Maemo, with a handfull of apps being made, that's it.

MeeGo is no well thought out plan. MeeGo just happened because Intel was making something similar to Maemo, and Maemo got axed in the process. Not even Maemo was a well thought out plan, it was an experiment on the side of Nokia's core business. Symbian was definitely not well thought out. Nokia purchased it, open sourced it, nobody cared for it - everybody left, Nokia closed SF and made it an internal project. In addition Symbian^3 was to be one step ahead towards Symbian^4 that would integrate with MeeGo through Qt. Again - axed (the plan), Symbian is now only Symbian with gradual upgrades and no set plan for Qt integration with MeeGo. And of course MeeGo is nowhere to be seen, it is still the same pre-alpha state it was 6 months ago, even though it is version 1.2 that is under development (why call it 1.2??). I mean, this is no plan, this is a complete mess. The potential is there, but the execution and determination to release that potential - is not.

There is only one explanation for this. Nokia has bitten of more than they can chew. Somewhere inside Nokia there have not been proper synch between what realistically can be done, and what needs to be done.

What has Elop done? Elop has closed down SF. He has sacked 1800 software engineers and he has axed the stepvise plan for Symbian. Symbian is to get incremental updates. In short, Elop has thrown away the revolution and inserted steady evolution. A good move, but make no mistake, a consequence of this is that the holy triunity has been postponed indefinitely, and so has MeeGo. MeeGo without the synergies of Qt and Symbian makes little sense unless Nokia (this time) wants to start from scratch with MeeGo regarding online services and apps. But if that is the case, then what is wrong with Maemo?

To me Nokia looks like a mess. I'm just glad they still know how to make good phones, like the N8, C7, C6-01 and so on, and N900. Symbian is an excellent OS, the best there is, and a steady evolution of Symbian along with OVI services is probably the only thing needed to bring Nokia to where it wants to be. MeeGo is an unnecessary distraction IMO because Nokia does not have the recourses and determination to pull it off. Besides, can anyone tell me what MeeGo is supposed to do, that Symbian cannot?
 
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vkv.raju is offline vkv.raju
2010-12-28 , 00:00
Posts: 402 | Thanked: 451 times | Joined on Dec 2007 @ India
#116
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
Besides, can anyone tell me what MeeGo is supposed to do, that Symbian cannot?
Upstream. This is one of the main reasons why most of them want MeeGo to come into existence.
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2010-12-28 , 00:04
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#117
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
On the other hand, Microsoft also has one of their own sad, sadistic puppet-masters at the healm of Nokia. Further bolstering the argument that they don't NEED to buy Nokia.
Don't go about giving out the details how Microsoft secretly plans to rebuild their evil empire through Nokia... hush you.
 

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ericsson is offline ericsson
2010-12-28 , 00:19
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#118
Originally Posted by vkv.raju View Post
Upstream. This is one of the main reasons why most of them want MeeGo to come into existence.
Yea, that one. But how true is this? Look at Android, it is branching more and more off from Linux. Google wouldn't do that unless they had good reasons to. Besides, the upstream regarding ARM is 100% Nokia. I mean, it makes some sense, but not perfect sense, in fact it is far from perfect sense. WM on the other hand, would be true upstream, that would make sense (if that is a possibility). MeeGo on Intel chips would make perfect sense.
 
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ndi is offline ndi
2010-12-28 , 12:43
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#119
There is little keeping Nokia from keeping Qt if they move to Windows. Apps that use low level OS stuff will fail to work if recompiled, but most UI only apps will keep going, as well as most if not all Python.
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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-12-28 , 12:57
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#120
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
Yea, that one. But how true is this? Look at Android, it is branching more and more off from Linux.
Massively so. Every Android vendor is 100% dependent on Google for future development of all aspects of the OS aside from the kernel. Generally this is a bad thing, and needlessly duplicated effort.

Google wouldn't do that unless they had good reasons to.
They don't. It's all about NIH and having total control over the platform.

Besides, the upstream regarding ARM is 100% Nokia. I mean, it makes some sense, but not perfect sense, in fact it is far from perfect sense.
This sentence makes none. Please clarify.

WM on the other hand, would be true upstream, that would make sense (if that is a possibility). MeeGo on Intel chips would make perfect sense.
WM? It has no "upstream", and your statement makes me wonder if you understand what he meant. And how would MeeGo make more sense on Intel than on ARM? I don't believe for a moment that Symbian, as it currently is, can maintain any efficiency leads over Linux or any other mobile OS, especially since the world turned its collective nose up at the source release (many years too late.)
Last edited by wmarone; 2010-12-28 at 13:01.
 

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