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2009-10-17
, 05:13
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#122
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Originally Posted by christexaport
Come on, Jay. I'm not a Karma whore. That was pretty low, brother. I'm a pretty selfless guy, tbh. I'm trying to be helpful to this, which is MY, community, and I consider myself a part of it wholeheartedly. But whether we're developers or users, we see a login and it doesn't work as expected, and some people leave only because they have a hard time signing in. I had the issue with making a Brainstorm, so I'm speaking from experience.
We can just ignore the whole thing, but I thought saying something might give insight to making things smoother for the masses, sort of like my portrait/ASR "crusade", which wasn't as nice as I'd like. However, after the surveys show how many people want it and find its absence an oversight, as I'd predicted, I wished some of us could just start listening to criticism constructively. I had a suggestion, not a declaration of war.
If only developers belong in certain parts of the site, just let it be known and save us non devs some time. I know none of the info "requires" a login, but most don't, and it causes confusion we could easily solve.
My site has a community of over 115k members. Most of the readers here won't filter there, since this site provides something my community does on a smaller scale. We are the little brother of "The .Org", as we've started calling this site, and want to be partners, not an alternative. There's nothing blatant about trying to make things better here that relates to my site, which hasn't been mentioned in this thread once.
Cut me some slack, and reevaluate your assessment of why I'm here. Obviously, there is some holdover form the past month's fiasco, but I've let that all go, and forgiven the whole ordeal. Can you do the same, my friend? I'm bipolar, and a jerk, but I want to make amends, if you'll accept.
I'll avoid this thread to avoid the PERCEPTION of any ill will to "The .Org" if that will please you, but doing so will keep my opinion out of this community, which I don't find fair. I want to be a member here, but not if I'll be blackballed anytime I say anything. I'm only here to help, nothing more.
I find some of your posts confusing. With the "my", "we", "our" used differently it seems, perhaps depending on your expected audience.
Your issues about the need for multiple log-ins are valid and ones I agree with. In fact I brought them up not long after I first joined maemo.org. All I wanted to do was report a bug and found I had to join bugzilla with yet another log-in. This forum wasn't a part of maemo.org at the time and I used it to vent I suppose.
When the forum did merge with maemo.org, I and others brought it up again as feed back to the powers that were coming to be. I used some of your same arguments about people not finding the site useful and not returning. A single sign on was proposed and a task initiated >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on
...and to see how this community handles these tasks, here is a meeting transcript...
You will also notice that my name is not among them
I cried the loudest but didn't bother to attend.
I'm still coming back though because this is the place for accurate and timely Maemo information.
I also learned that some things are easier said then done but that if it is a task this community undertakes, it will get done... and, as many members pointed out to me in subsequent posts, if I don't like the schedule, I should feel free to get involved my own dang self.
Also: I can not speak for others but when I went to the site you are referring to here >>
Originally Posted by You
I didn't see any posts calling TMO "The .Org" or that sites big brother. Instead I saw posts like this.....My site has a community of over 115k members. Most of the readers here won't filter there, since this site provides something my community does on a smaller scale. We are the little brother of "The .Org", as we've started calling this site, and want to be partners, not an alternative...
Originally Posted by Someone
...anyway. That's why the confusion. Man, their jack asses there. Have you been yet? Its all a good ol' boy system over there. The devs are top flight, but they're d..ks, and they talk like they don't have to ever meet the people they step on...
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-10-17 at 12:11. Reason: (mutters under breath about anal retentiveness)... :)
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2009-10-17
, 05:44
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#123
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Erm, all moving forward with a sense of purpose and conviction, yes. All volunteers, not so much.
A single sign on was proposed and a task initiated >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on
...and to see how this community handles these tasks, here is a meeting transcript... all volunteers, all moving forward, all with a sense of purpose and conviction. >> http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/sso-m...009-05-27.html.
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Thank you all for your donations!
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2009-10-17
, 12:04
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#124
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Originally Posted by qole
Post edited with the word "most" instead of all...
Erm, all moving forward with a sense of purpose and conviction, yes. All volunteers, not so much.
If this is incorrect let me know and I will remove the reference all together.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-10-17 at 12:46.
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2009-10-17
, 15:24
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Posts: 1,589 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Arlington (DFW), Texas
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#125
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Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat
I'm a writer and trained as a journalist now for 17 years, so I'm adept at recognizing intention and deciphering the spirit of most comments. I won't pretend yours were intended to be anything but degrading and nefarious. I'm mean, and I sometimes let my emotions get the better of me, but I'm far from stupid. I know exactly what you intended by saying "If it wasn't blatantly obvious that you're trying to draw people to your maemo site by pointing out how bad this one is." You are totally wrong, and I stand by what I say.
@Chris
I said you were trying to "draw people to your Maemo site".
What exactly does that mean to you?
Your "gripe" is unwarranted. You made a false comment about me, based on nothing other than a personal assumption. If I'm wrong, tell me why you feel I'm pointing this out to make my site look good? Anyone that has spent any time in the Symbian, WinMo, or Android communities would tell you that I'm rarely self serving, and always being an advocate for others. I didn't blow your comment out of proportion. You told a lie about me, and it could negatively affect my site, readers, and forums. I take that seriously. To imply I'm bad mouthing any site to poach readers or attract them to an alternative is pretty low, and you'd be offended, too, were the shoe on the other foot. You've just continued the rudeness I'd experienced here in the past, even though I've personally apologized and left that behind, and out of the blue, so I lumped you in with that old group. Just check the sarcasm and rudeness at the door WITH ME, and keep it serious. It causes too much confusion, and its not always funny.
Trying to "spin" your own comments lets me know you didn't think I noticed you put an imagined motive to why I'm making inferences about this site. You can ask a million hypothetical questions,but no one here is stupid. Save the BS for the courtroom. I'm here to talk about making the site more user-friendly. You're a funny guy, but I'm here to make Maemo better, not be entertained as the butt of your not so funny joke. Let's keep it on topic.
I'm so sorry I put you and your site "into a bad light" and "ruined your reputation" and "ridiculed" you....... SERIOUSLY?
LMFAO.
Apparently the drama is also bigger in Texas.
I know the topic is supposed to be for technical solutions, but the attitude issues will have to be addressed sooner or later. I'm getting so sick of the childishness and crass behavior. This is OUR site, and everyone should be welcome, not just insiders. This will boil over again and again without some sort of intervention and governance.
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Maemo-Freak.com
"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
Maemo-Freak.com
"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
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2009-10-17
, 15:36
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Posts: 1,589 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Arlington (DFW), Texas
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#126
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@ YoDude,
I don't just participate in the Maemo-related forums here and on my site, but various mobile sites. I'm regularly in conversation with most of the top tech bloggers on the web, and Maemo is the biggest topic amongst them all. So not everything I talk about is on the MF (not THAT MF, jokers...) forums. Not all parts of the MF forums are open to the public, either. We have private areas for beta testing, software design challenges, and the like, and the site administration has its own private area. So many posts won't ever be seen by those with less access. We are a laid back group, and close like family, and many of our forum threads are personal conversations where we speak our minds and talk about things going on in our lives, like most families do.
The "my, we and our" issue requires you to read them in context, and since I wasn't talking directly to you, you may become confused. That comment wasn't meant for you, so pay it little attention. But if you're so eager to see any reference to "The .Org", check this recent one out:
http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/mis...-i-told-you-so
But to clear things a bit, Maemo.org is MY community, just like the rest of the guys here, and I'm proud to be part of it. I am also part of the MF community, which is, by default, also part of the Maemo community as well. We are part of an alliance, not competitors, but cooperating groups that depend upon each other, just as we've done with SF and Symbian.org.
Last edited by christexaport; 2009-10-17 at 16:01.
I don't just participate in the Maemo-related forums here and on my site, but various mobile sites. I'm regularly in conversation with most of the top tech bloggers on the web, and Maemo is the biggest topic amongst them all. So not everything I talk about is on the MF (not THAT MF, jokers...) forums. Not all parts of the MF forums are open to the public, either. We have private areas for beta testing, software design challenges, and the like, and the site administration has its own private area. So many posts won't ever be seen by those with less access. We are a laid back group, and close like family, and many of our forum threads are personal conversations where we speak our minds and talk about things going on in our lives, like most families do.
The "my, we and our" issue requires you to read them in context, and since I wasn't talking directly to you, you may become confused. That comment wasn't meant for you, so pay it little attention. But if you're so eager to see any reference to "The .Org", check this recent one out:
http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/mis...-i-told-you-so
But to clear things a bit, Maemo.org is MY community, just like the rest of the guys here, and I'm proud to be part of it. I am also part of the MF community, which is, by default, also part of the Maemo community as well. We are part of an alliance, not competitors, but cooperating groups that depend upon each other, just as we've done with SF and Symbian.org.
__________________
Maemo-Freak.com
"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
Maemo-Freak.com
"...and the Freaks shall inherit the Earth."
Last edited by christexaport; 2009-10-17 at 16:01.
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2009-10-17
, 16:01
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#127
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Originally Posted by YoDude
One can only speak for themselves, and let each individual do so. In the case one is assuming a (self-proclaimed) ambassador role references are useful, and one should not feel insulted or surprised when someone takes the we with a grain of salt. Ie. the reason Maemo community council is a respected authority on t.m.o is because they are elected.
I find some of your posts confusing. With the "my", "we", "our" used differently it seems, perhaps depending on your expected audience.
Hypothetic example: one can say diagonal mode is in high demand yet without some kind of statistic research such is unclear for both outsiders as well as developers (both Nokia and non-Nokia). Therefore, the quantity of arguments is of less value than the quality of arguments.
A way to work around such is by developing a barrier. You can ask for the interested party to put some effort into their feedback. Therefore, you make sure only those who care to get through that process are going to reply. I like such barrier. I don't like it when someone puts a half effort in their feedback. In a way, the lack of SSO is such a barrier. Same for Brainstorm.
Now, the quality of arguments is lacking in this discussion about SSO and is instead here:
Your issues about the need for multiple log-ins are valid and ones I agree with. In fact I brought them up not long after I first joined maemo.org. All I wanted to do was report a bug and found I had to join bugzilla with yet another log-in. This forum wasn't a part of maemo.org at the time and I used it to vent I suppose.
When the forum did merge with maemo.org, I and others brought it up again as feed back to the powers that were coming to be. I used some of your same arguments about people not finding the site useful and not returning. A single sign on was proposed and a task initiated >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on
...and to see how this community handles these tasks, here is a meeting transcript...allmost volunteers, all moving forward, all with a sense of purpose and conviction. >> http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/sso-m...009-05-27.html
Can we please put the drama and felonies (JOKE) in a seperate thread...
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2009-10-17
, 16:03
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ München, DE
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#128
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Originally Posted by christexaport
The same happens here on maemo.org. So how is a "gated community" userfriendly while a community where you can access *everything* even without having a login in need of more friendliness?
Not all parts of the MF forums are open to the public, either. We have private areas for beta testing, software design challenges, and the like, and the site administration has its own private area. So many posts won't ever be seen by those with less access. We are a laid back group, and close like family, and many of our forum threads are personal conversations where we speak our minds and talk about things going on in our lives, like most families do.
And please don't tell me "your family" doesn't have it quibbles at some times.
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2009-10-17
, 16:20
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#129
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Chris, that was very convenient of you to take credit for portrait support after so many posts about it before you and which we later on found out it's already in the development roadmap anyway.
Community = More us, less me.
This is the main point of contention in all of arguments on this board that you've gotten yourself involved in, if I may say so.
Community = More us, less me.
This is the main point of contention in all of arguments on this board that you've gotten yourself involved in, if I may say so.
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Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
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2009-10-17
, 16:37
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 193 times |
Joined on Jun 2009
@ A place with no mountains
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#130
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speaking of user friendliness of the site's application, I can't figure out how to unsubscribe from a thread. When I go to my subscriptions page, I do not have check boxes on the right of each thread, so I cannot select an individual thread to unsubscribe from.
EDIT: Oh, I see. I have to make a new post and then I can change my thread subscription when I submit a new post. That's something that could be changed to improve user friendliness. But it is obviously of minor importance.
P.S. The thread I want to unsubscribe from is this one. It doesn't feel very friendly to watch everyone berating each other.
This is a good time to plug one of my favorite books:
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life by Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell (Paperback - Dec 23, 2003)
In personal relationships, defense is the first act of war. Any time you catch yourself defending your statements or defending yourself against someone else's statements about you, recognize that your defensiveness is the beginning or continuation of hostilities.
Outside observers who read back and forth stuff like this don't usually care about the details of who is right or wrong. But they recognize that individuals who continue to argue are perpetuating something that could easily be dropped -- if not for the need to defend one's ego. (The word "ego" is not being used in the sense of egotistical. Rather it more closely means "concept of individual self".)
Last edited by MountainX; 2009-10-17 at 16:48.
EDIT: Oh, I see. I have to make a new post and then I can change my thread subscription when I submit a new post. That's something that could be changed to improve user friendliness. But it is obviously of minor importance.
P.S. The thread I want to unsubscribe from is this one. It doesn't feel very friendly to watch everyone berating each other.
This is a good time to plug one of my favorite books:
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life by Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell (Paperback - Dec 23, 2003)
In personal relationships, defense is the first act of war. Any time you catch yourself defending your statements or defending yourself against someone else's statements about you, recognize that your defensiveness is the beginning or continuation of hostilities.
Outside observers who read back and forth stuff like this don't usually care about the details of who is right or wrong. But they recognize that individuals who continue to argue are perpetuating something that could easily be dropped -- if not for the need to defend one's ego. (The word "ego" is not being used in the sense of egotistical. Rather it more closely means "concept of individual self".)
Last edited by MountainX; 2009-10-17 at 16:48.
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Last edited by MountainX; 2009-10-19 at 13:57. Reason: I didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I originally posted this.