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2010-01-12
, 22:40
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@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#122
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode
Ridiculous. But the long and short of it is.... currently: If your app manager is broken, you don't have rootsh, you are screwed since they took away Red Pill. There has to be some way to install individual deb files because it's simply required sometimes.
fatalsaint, your whole argument is based around the idea that a user with a broken Application Manager and without rootsh or ssh installed is stuck. This is clearly not the case, so I suggest you reevaluate your position.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2010-01-12 at 22:49.
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2010-01-12
, 22:41
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Posts: 992 |
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ California
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#123
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Originally Posted by wmarone
It is already filed by me (bug 7149) - I think it has a common reason.
Perhaps instead of banging on about Red Pill mode we should file a bug report.
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2010-01-12
, 22:42
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Joined on Sep 2009
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#124
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
A completely hypothetical and unlikely scenario. Hardly justification for Red Pill mode. The average person does not have .deb files just lying around on their system, nor should they. If you're writing your own app, you should be comfortable enough with the command line to know what you're doing. And no one will support you (nor should they) if you insist on manually installing .deb files directly unless they EXPLICITLY tell you to do so (and that's rare.)
say I get my N900 but I don't have cell service, SIM card, or whatever and I'm not by a wireless device. But I do have deb files on my laptop, or maybe I'm writing my own app for it.. there is no way, until I connect to wifi, to install my packages, or any other packages I want.
Granted, again, the question becomes how often things like this would happen. Allowing root, but only allowing it if you get to the internet, is silly.
Each time we encounter a case where you have to go to the shell or use Red Pill mode to fix something isn't a reason FOR Red Pill, it's a bug in the base UI that should be fixed.
Originally Posted by mozr
No, standards are -extremely- important. They keep the system running.
Isn't non-standard part and parcel of an open source system?
Is the n900 a high end open source tablet with mobile phone capabilities, or is it a direct competitor to the iphone (user friendly, none techy device)?
Last edited by wmarone; 2010-01-12 at 22:45. Reason: Oops, forgot to NOT my conditional.
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2010-01-12
, 22:48
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Posts: 3,428 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
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#125
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Originally Posted by wmarone
I know what I'm doing on my own, I am very good with linux. I know everything I need in the command line. The problem lies that I cannot do it without rootsh, and I cannot get rootsh without internet. I go on family vacations.. I have, in the past, downloaded entire sets of debs for my laptops that I know I'll need while I'm reinstalling my Linux's out on family vacation, in the mountains, with no internet.
A completely hypothetical and unlikely scenario. Hardly justification for Red Pill mode. The average person does not have .deb files just lying around on their system, nor should they. If you're writing your own app, you should be comfortable enough with the command line to know what you're doing. And no one will support you (nor should they) if you insist on manually installing .deb files directly unless they EXPLICITLY tell you to do so (and that's rare.)
Sometimes I don't plan so well.. and miss some debs.. and yes that's frustrating
. Sometimes.. works out great.. and I can get a lot done hidden away in a trailer in the middle of no where.Then suggest that the rootsh package be included by default. I suspect, however, that anyone who truly needs it will have internet access. It was the first package I installed when I got my N900. You're arguing for extremely obscure corner cases.
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2010-01-12
, 22:52
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Posts: 1,746 |
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Joined on Sep 2009
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#126
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
I would suggest not wrecking your system's software while on vacation.
I know what I'm doing on my own, I am very good with linux. I know everything I need in the command line. The problem lies that I cannot do it without rootsh, and I cannot get rootsh without internet. I go on family vacations.. I have, in the past, downloaded entire sets of debs for my laptops that I know I'll need while I'm reinstalling my Linux's out on family vacation, in the mountains, with no internet.
Hello? Where have you been? That's exactly what I've been arguing for - putting rootsh in by default. I am arguing for a case that actually happened.
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2010-01-12
, 22:53
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Posts: 3,428 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
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#127
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Funny coming from you GA.
flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode
fatalsaint, your whole argument is based around the idea that a user with a broken Application Manager and without rootsh or ssh installed is stuck. This is clearly not the case, so I suggest you reevaluate your position.
R&D mode enables more than just root access.
Edit: Also, enabling R&D mode for a typical end-user is just intrusive as reflashing. They may as well reflash the device to fix the problem in the other thread. A very simple problem.. with a very simple fix. But complicated solely due to the lack of access to the device.
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2010-01-12
, 22:56
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#128
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
You asked for a way to get root with no way to install rootsh and not other root access. This is it. The reason I'm not recommending that users pick R&D mode as the default root access solution.
Funny coming from you GA.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Of course it does, but this is a troubleshoot-or-reflash situation. After the issue has been fixed all they need to run is.
R&D mode enables more than just root access.
flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-12
, 22:58
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Posts: 3,428 |
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#129
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Well.. I suppose that'll have to be good enough. I don't believe it should be necessary to use a computer to gain root. Again.. no different than an iPhone 
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2010-01-12
, 23:00
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#130
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
So connecting their device to a computer and enabling R&D mode, troubleshooting their issue, then disabling it is more intrusive than having to start from scratch (perhaps with no backup available)? Interesting.
Edit: Also, enabling R&D mode for a typical end-user is just intrusive as reflashing. They may as well reflash the device to fix the problem in the other thread. A very simple problem.. with a very simple fix. But complicated solely due to the lack of access to the device.
Either way, the issue here isn't whether the solution is more or less convenient. You're claim was that there was no other way out, which is quite clearly not the case.
You can make an argument for a nice, friendly recovery mode, but that's outside the scope of this particular discussion.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
BTW, the talk is not about you, the discussion is about ordinary N900 user - you try to keep HIM from destroying his FS, not you, right? I try to prove you that he has his own mind and he needs the listing of ALL applications. If he doesn't have it - HowardForum and other forums will be full of advices how to do it.
Red pill was actually hidden much better then rootsh and apt- packages. But it was a simple way to give to that kind of user a tool to "haaack" device. And that tool actually may have some guardians in comparison with plain root shell.