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2014-08-27
, 18:36
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#122
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Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Don't you think the people in this thread would have responded better to an explanation?
I find it rather difficult to see what public shrift about such issue would add to anyone. Except potentially giving an impression that there is something seriously wrong with whole hw-design, even if most users don't experience such problems.
Communications can easily be turned against you, as we have already seen in this thread - transparency should be something to improve things in community, so it's quite sensible to deliberate communications. Also, I doubt that community concentrating on issues like SIM-cards won't improve anything since those issues are completely out of community's hands. Therefore only sensible way is to just say, contact care and have it fixed.
https://together.jolla.com/question/...e-lost-easily/
My point isn't even about what's right, but what would be the way to act in a manner that improves community perception, participation and persistence.
I don't think that, what we see in that TJC thread, is that way.
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2014-08-27
, 18:39
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#123
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Originally Posted by pango
I know I keep repeating myself, but:
I get it, that the story has been send it for repair. The SIM card case is not a case of warranty denied, of course.
It is of an explanation denied:
What kind of explanation could that be other than "If it's broken, have us fix it"? Could you, please, please, finally come up with an example of an "explanation" that you're thinking of?
Originally Posted by pango
I know this thread. It's very straightforward (and open): Some users collect information about a problem immediately after launch that Jolla wasn't aware of. Stefano thanks them, admits they have no idea why this could be happening and promises further investigation. After a while he announces they have finally found the root cause, and users affected need to send their devices in. What else would you expect? Should they have made up some fairy tale in early January instead of writing "Sorry, we have no idea what's causing this"?
https://together.jolla.com/question/...e-lost-easily/
Just read it all.
If you can't see how Jolla is denying people the explanation, then you must be blind. And if you can't see how those people on the thread would have been happier with an answer, you must be doubly so.
I admit I would have been furious had I been affected by the SIM-card-holder problem back then: To think I'd been waiting for so long... and then can't use my brand new toy! I'd have killed them out of anger. And I'd have been even more furious that it took them almost three months to find the root cause. But I'd have expected them to solve it for me, not to tell a story or "give answers". Marc Dillon might have grown a beard, but he's still not Jesus. His words can't heal. Only customer service can.
Last edited by benny1967; 2014-08-27 at 18:44.
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2014-08-27
, 18:41
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#124
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Originally Posted by Dave999
It's a good point.
Lets say a compony U buying fr.o.m. Using child Labour, pay rediculas low salaries, have a View of the world that is not part of your View or bad customer support and ignore its users, subcontracors and delivery factory. You don't care?
Personally I have given up about that because it would mean not doing business in China.
Despite that, this topic is certainly more interesting than the current talk about possibly defective production batches.
Last edited by javispedro; 2014-08-27 at 18:45.
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2014-08-27
, 18:49
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#125
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Originally Posted by benny1967
What do I expect? From Jolla I would expect nothing more than what happened. I have already pretty much resigned to the fact that Jolla is a pretty secretive company.
I know this thread. It's very straightforward (and open): Some users collect information about a problem immediately after launch that Jolla wasn't aware of. Stefano thanks them, admits they have no idea why this could be happening and promises further investigation. After a while he announces they have finally found the root cause, and users affected need to send their devices in. What else would you expect? Should they have made up some fairy tale in early January instead of writing "Sorry, we have no idea what's causing this"?
I admit I would have been furious had I been affected by the SIM-card-holder problem back then: To think I'd been waiting for so long... and then can't use my brand new toy! I'd have killed them out of anger. And I'd have been even more furious that it took them almost three months to find the root cause. But I'd have expected them to solve it for me, not to tell a story or "give answers". Marc Dillon might have grown a beard recently, but he's still not Jesus. His words can't heal. Only customer service can.
But what I think would have been beneficial for their image and the community participation? Why not giving an explanation. Even if one would understand that there were no real status updates, the fact that they finally say they know the root cause but do not elaborate at all, speaks volumes.
Yes, they chose to withhold the root cause for whatever reason. We can only speculate.
We don't need stories or fairytales, but starting with a simple, honest, transparent truth would be a good start. They likely had some inkling of the reason, some statuses they might have been able to share throughout the process to keep the waiting people a little happier, but most importantly they could have given an explanation in the end. I find that people respond to open status updates far better than silence or "we can't tell you anything" stuff.
And if you think this is just my illogical rambling, just look at those comments. People are not very happy about the lack of explanation and the fact that the case was locked mid-stream a couple of times, and it is hard to blame them. In the end it looks pretty silly how secretive the Jolla guy is there.
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2014-08-27
, 18:50
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Posts: 285 |
Thanked: 1,900 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#126
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Originally Posted by pango
No. It was handled in simple and efficient manner: report was acknowledged, taken under investigation, root problem was found and users suffering from the problem were instructed to contact care. That was all that was needed.
Don't you think the people in this thread would have responded better to an explanation?
Of course they could have given deep technical details about the issue, but still, everyone suffering from that particular problem would have to send their device to be repaired. So, for that part your version of transparency wouldn't have helped anyone but it might have caused problems if those details were misunderstood and/or used in hostile manner.
Last edited by JulmaHerra; 2014-08-27 at 18:52.
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2014-08-27
, 18:54
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
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#127
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Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Really. You don't think all the people who took the time to complain about a lack of explanation might have felt better if they had an explanation? My belief certainly is different to yours.
No. It was handled in simple and efficient manner: report was acknowledged, taken under investigation, root problem was found and users suffering from the problem were instructed to contact care. That was all that was needed.
Of course they could have given deep technical details about the issue, but still, everyone suffering from that particular problem would have to send their device to be repaired.
And nobody was asking for "deep technical details". Just a common-courtesy reason and a status update or two while they investigated would have definitely kept the crowd happier.
That is what I believe anyway. To me that TJC thread looks pretty absurd with the way the Jolla guy circles around the reasons, even taking the time to clarify that nobody is forcing him silent.
Looks pretty darn weird. I cringe when I read it:
https://together.jolla.com/question/...e-lost-easily/
That's transparency? That's unlike?
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2014-08-27
, 19:10
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#128
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Originally Posted by pango
I don't need to speculate. I know the root cause:
Yes, they chose to withhold the root cause for whatever reason. We can only speculate.
It's Part #B4876/III (soldered between the frame that surrounds the SIM card and part #F76a). The manufacturer bought it from 2 suppliers. One of those had issues with the material used.
Do you feel better now? Does this help?
No, most probably it doesn't because I obviously made it up. But Jolla's internal findings might have been exactly like this and therefore completely useless. (Which directly leads to the part in which Jolla can't make it public because it affects third parties, like their manufacturer and its suppliers.)
And I still wonder why we had all this fuzz about the SIM-card-holder, but not about certain other hw-related problems that I noticed were common. Maybe it depends on who's affected and how much of a troll he is.
Originally Posted by pango
That's what we always got. Or do you have any proof that any of them were lying to us?
We don't need stories or fairytales, but starting with a simple, honest, transparent truth would be a good start.
Originally Posted by pango
I may direct your attention to the very thread you pointed to: The one "people" I have in mind didn't respond well at all to status updates.
I find that people respond to open status updates far better than silence or "we can't tell you anything" stuff.
Originally Posted by pango
People were angry that their phones didn't work after they'd waited for so long... and that's fully understandable. As I said, I'd have been furious, too. One person chose to make a drama out of it and has been a PITA ever since.
And if you think this is just my illogical rambling, just look at those comments. People are not very happy about the lack of explanation and the fact that the case was locked mid-stream a couple of times, and it is hard to blame them.
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2014-08-27
, 19:22
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Posts: 80 |
Thanked: 59 times |
Joined on Aug 2012
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#129
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It's really amusing how some people think that I'm behind Pango on TMO and Random Random on MNB, stating that I'm using VPNs, change IPs etc. I guess some people (like Morpog or juiceme) must probably have some kind of "Filip-everywhere" obsession and when they are opening the fridge they are afraid I might pop out from it. That must be a really hard problem to live with for them. My condolences to those poor guys.
Some Jolla supporters are acting really strange. It reminds me a bit a communist state citizen mentality. He will align and repeat what ruling party says, hoping that party will reward him someday. That is a healthy community? Seriously?
When someone wise like Pango comes and in very respectful way, without insulting anyone will present his opinion, he is instantly attacked that he might be Filip. Even if he would be Filip then still what kind of argument it is? If Filip says something is it automatically invalid, because it came from Filip? That's a logical fallacy called "genetic":
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic
PS. Sorry Pango, that you must give proofs of you being Finnish. It's really ridicolous, but that's how some people from this community work and probably will never believe until they will see you.
Some Jolla supporters are acting really strange. It reminds me a bit a communist state citizen mentality. He will align and repeat what ruling party says, hoping that party will reward him someday. That is a healthy community? Seriously?
When someone wise like Pango comes and in very respectful way, without insulting anyone will present his opinion, he is instantly attacked that he might be Filip. Even if he would be Filip then still what kind of argument it is? If Filip says something is it automatically invalid, because it came from Filip? That's a logical fallacy called "genetic":
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic
PS. Sorry Pango, that you must give proofs of you being Finnish. It's really ridicolous, but that's how some people from this community work and probably will never believe until they will see you.
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2014-08-27
, 19:23
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Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
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#130
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I think this is circling a little too much around flogging a dead (SIM holder shaped) horse at this point.
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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Communications can easily be turned against you, as we have already seen in this thread - transparency should be something to improve things in community, so it's quite sensible to deliberate communications. Also, I doubt that community concentrating on issues like SIM-cards won't improve anything since those issues are completely out of community's hands. Therefore only sensible way is to just say, contact care and have it fixed.