Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) - Page 137 - maemo.org

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MartinK	2015-10-12 , 19:52
Posts: 1,548 \| Thanked: 7,510 times \| Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic	#1361

Originally Posted by korpenkraxar

I have been a bit undecided about Gnome 3 but I could see it fit on a tablet like this and actually have a fairly nice in-between interface on a device which would sometimes be used as tablet and sometimes as a laptop with some external peripherals.

While mobile use & touchscreens are not the primary target for Gnome 3/Gnome Shell (contrary to what some people have been continuously assuming for years

) the Gnome developers do track touch screen support issues so that Gnome Shell can be used on touchscreen devices in the future.

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szopin	2015-10-12 , 19:54
Posts: 2,076 \| Thanked: 3,268 times \| Joined on Feb 2011	#1362

Originally Posted by MartinK

Weston should not be needed - Weston is a reference implementation of a compositor speaking the Wayland protocol - and you don't need that as you already have one such compositor called lipstick. Even in Gnome Shell on Fedora GTK3 work s just fine with Wayland without Weston, using the Gnome Shell Mutter compositor instead.

So what is needed if we want to run GTK3 apps such as Firefox, Virt Manager, Thunderbird, Corebird, etc. is to build GTK3 and all its dependencies.

I have started on this in the Mer OBS but haven't really got time to work on it lately. So anyone is welcome take over from there.

Is that really so? Thought weston has implementation specific code (libinput?). If lipstick can handle that then even better

korpenkraxar	2015-10-12 , 20:12
Posts: 11 \| Thanked: 10 times \| Joined on Mar 2012	#1363

Originally Posted by MartinK

While mobile use & touchscreens are not the primary target for Gnome 3/Gnome Shell (contrary to what some people have been continuously assuming for years ) the Gnome developers do track touch screen support issues so that Gnome Shell can be used on touchscreen devices in the future.

Haha! Got me there :-) Well, given the complexity of getting the graphics stack working and libraries compiled etc under Sailfish OS, would it perhaps even be easier to port Debian to the tablet and dual boot (if at all supported by the boot loader)?

szopin	2015-10-12 , 20:16
Posts: 2,076 \| Thanked: 3,268 times \| Joined on Feb 2011	#1364

@MartinK: Ok... just one thing, if we can run weston on jolla phone/tablet as compositor, why even bother with lipstick? Jolla has no extra money to throw at that development, right? And making it feature complete with other compositors seems even more upkeep. What's going on?

	Dave999	2015-10-12 , 20:48
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#1365

Wave 2 is only 17 days away.

that is nothing. Just relax and stay off-topic. You are doing a fine job. Take care.

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aegis	2015-10-12 , 22:04
Posts: 702 \| Thanked: 2,059 times \| Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK	#1366

Originally Posted by gerbick

Good point. I've no point of reference personally; but I'm willing to bet that the reviewer or the layman would have to have those pointed out to them before they become obvious choices.

Which would infer they aren't obvious choices if someone has to tell you.

Originally Posted by gerbick

For instance... if you have an iPad, you automatically will have iTunes. Consumers are conditioned to think that way. I will not argue that's the better way to go about things (personally, I do not think that it is) but it is what it is.

I think you're a few years or of date. It's been possible to use an iPad or iPhone without iTunes and without a desktop computer for ages. My partner's iPad has never been connected to her Mac. The previous iPad (an original) was maybe last connected 4 years ago. It's still in occasional use BTW. Both receive content without ever touching iTunes.

Originally Posted by gerbick

But you're an informed user. Wouldn't it nice if the company that makes the product of your choice inform the other users? That's what Google and Apple have done.

Not for a awhile they haven't. It's all cloud based services now. Now if only Jolla had easy to use cloud based accounts setup and an API that 3rd parties could use to add their services instead of having to launch them on OpenRepo and patch the UI.

	pichlo	2015-10-12 , 22:41
	Posts: 6,453 \| Thanked: 20,983 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#1367

Originally Posted by aegis

Originally Posted by gerbick
For instance... if you have an iPad, you automatically will have iTunes. Consumers are conditioned to think that way. I will not argue that's the better way to go about things (personally, I do not think that it is) but it is what it is.

I think you're a few years or of date. It's been possible to use an iPad or iPhone without iTunes and without a desktop computer for ages.

It might be because English is not my first language but my reading of gerbick's post was not that Apple forces the users to use iTunes but that it offers it. The users may have a choice but most of them do not bother and take the easy path.

Jolla, OTOH, does not offer a service like that, thus forcing the users to look around. Ergo, Jolla is not for the customers who are used to the default - the company making their phone's OS also providing the services.

MartinK	2015-10-12 , 22:44
Posts: 1,548 \| Thanked: 7,510 times \| Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic	#1368

Originally Posted by szopin

Is that really so? Thought weston has implementation specific code (libinput?). If lipstick can handle that then even better

AFAIK even though (someone possibly correct me) libinput started as part of Weston it is now a separate and very successful input handling library that can be even used with the xserver (so Fedora uses it to handle all input on both X and wayland since F22

).

But I'm not sure what the situation is with libinput on Sailfish OS (IIRC Sailfish OS predates libinput and uses some custom code as a result) and if would be needed for GTK3 or other toolkits to work.

Originally Posted by szopin

@MartinK: Ok... just one thing, if we can run weston on jolla phone/tablet as compositor, why even bother with lipstick? Jolla has no extra money to throw at that development, right? And making it feature complete with other compositors seems even more upkeep. What's going on?

AFAIK it is really meant as a reference compositor that is mainly used to test the Wayland protocol and stabilize planed additions before they become part of the stable Wayland protocol, not really something aspiring to be in the same league as major desktop environment compositors.

So that's why most desktop environments are adding Wayland support to their existing compositors rather than just using Weston.

Also I would assume Weston is not really targeted to work in the mobile device environment. Plus one has to take into account when lipstick has been deployed - end of 2013. Weston was certainly far less advanced back then than it is now.

szopin	2015-10-12 , 22:58
Posts: 2,076 \| Thanked: 3,268 times \| Joined on Feb 2011	#1369

Originally Posted by MartinK

AFAIK even though (someone possibly correct me) libinput started as part of Weston it is now a separate and very successful input handling library that can be even used with the xserver (so Fedora uses it to handle all input on both X and wayland since F22 ).

But I'm not sure what the situation is with libinput on Sailfish OS (IIRC Sailfish OS predates libinput and uses some custom code as a result) and if would be needed for GTK3 or other toolkits to work.

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=38
Yup, rewrite lipstick for libinput or hack on lipstick, or wait for 5.5, why not weston again?

gerbick	2015-10-13 , 02:18
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Originally Posted by pichlo

It might be because English is not my first language but my reading of gerbick's post was not that Apple forces the users to use iTunes but that it offers it. The users may have a choice but most of them do not bother and take the easy path.

Jolla, OTOH, does not offer a service like that, thus forcing the users to look around. Ergo, Jolla is not for the customers who are used to the default - the company making their phone's OS also providing the services.

Exactly this. The rest of the rhetoric as to what you can do with or without a computer is not material. It's the fact that it is an option with iOS and Android. No such option exists easily for Jolla for the uninformed... which make unfortunately up the majority.