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danramos is offline danramos
2010-05-03 , 23:49
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#131
Originally Posted by qole View Post
Texrat: Hard to know if the lack of degrees is just an excuse to kick out as many expensive Western workers as possible so they can hire 3 people in a developing country for the price of one in the Western world...
Wait, what? Are they outsourcing the Nokia CEO job now?
 
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-05-03 , 23:51
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#132
Originally Posted by bugelrex View Post
The only explanation is that it was not a very profitable device. Eg costs X, but can only sell at X + Y. Compared to other cheaper product lines, the profit margin could not be justified with limited resources unless it sold crazy crazy number of units..
Actually, from what I've heard, Maemo Devices may be one of the most profitable divisions in the company. Whether that's still true or was ever true, I don't know, but I don't believe it's the profitability of the platform that's in question.

Originally Posted by bugelrex View Post
Alternatively, the entire Nokia management might be just 'waiting out for their pensions' and don't want to rock the boat...
What it comes down to is that Symbian and S40 are known, and proven, quantities. A huge majority of the company knows what they are and knows how to work with them. The same can't be said for Maemo. Even though Nokia needs to change their strategy in the long run if they want to remain relevant, dealing with the necessities of that is both scary and unlikely to net many good things for the executives who would be responsible for it today.

Nokia's always been good at playing the long game, and they're not putting all of their eggs in one basket here either with Maemo or Symbian, but the *****footing around around the platform that's going to help keep them a technology innovator in the future is costing them big, and may have, ultimately, cost them the market they got into first.
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Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2010-05-04 at 12:18.
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-05-03 , 23:52
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#133
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Nokia's always been good at playing the long game, and they're not putting all of their eggs in one basket here either with Maemo or Symbian, but the *****footing around around the platform that's going to help keep them a technology innovator in the future is costing them big, and may have, ultimately, cost them the market they got into first.
On a side note, ***** is censored? But ***** cats are the best!
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Rauha is offline Rauha
2010-05-03 , 23:59
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#134
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Let's talk some real idiocy (IMO) here.

I have been told by some current and ex-Nokia employees that there's still a wholesale personnel dump going on, particularly in North America. The main reason? Lack of degrees. And sure enough, after experienced Nokia employees are let go, I see new listings like "Logistics Coordinator" asking for, of all things, a Master's Degree.

That's nuts. At Nokia I indirectly led around 400 logistics coordinators worldwide and I just have an Associate's degree. Nokia US is really disconnected from reality... I wonder how much of that is corporate-wide...
Master's degree cult is propably due to finnish roots and Nokia USA must have gotten it from the homebase. Everybody and their dog has at least master's over here, even me. Bachelor degrees are mostly considered as drop-out degrees in Finland.
 
Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-05-04 , 00:08
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#135
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
If you want to see why Maemo doesn't get the support it deserves in Nokia, you've only need to watch Anssi Vanjoki's (hour long) keynote from Nokia World last year where he spent about 2 minutes in an aside "announcing" the N900 in a "well, this thing sucks, but it's available" tone and the other 58 minutes telling us not to steal music and to buy the N97 mini.

Basically, the folks at the top of Nokia are dinosaurs who are having trouble changing with the times, and it's been holding Maemo back since 2005, and I fear it's going to continue holding MeeGo back now.
That's why I hope the whole getting Intel, and the Linux Foundation involved will finally put Meego on the proper path.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Let's talk some real idiocy (IMO) here.

I have been told by some current and ex-Nokia employees that there's still a wholesale personnel dump going on, particularly in North America. The main reason? Lack of degrees. And sure enough, after experienced Nokia employees are let go, I see new listings like "Logistics Coordinator" asking for, of all things, a Master's Degree.

That's nuts. At Nokia I indirectly led around 400 logistics coordinators worldwide and I just have an Associate's degree. Nokia US is really disconnected from reality... I wonder how much of that is corporate-wide...
Sadly the whole "Must have this degree" thing is pretty much pervasive in any organization (government and business). Heck a while back I had this participant who retired after working so many years in the Naval Research Lab, he said he would still be working there if it wasn't for the whole "must have MBA" shift. He was great at his job, and he loved it. But the environment changed and suddenly whoever was in charge rather everyone had MBAs.

Then there's this other case in a well known transportation system, where this guy had no formal training in engineering, but because he loved what he did and was always wiling to learn ran circles around people with formal electrical engineering degrees to the point where he was climbing the ladder. But a few months back he lost his job because NTSB found out he had no formal education in engineering.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 

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nicola.mfb is offline nicola.mfb
2010-05-04 , 00:11
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#136
Originally Posted by mrojas View Post
There is much to criticize in Nokia's strategy in the high-end, and some of it is very valid.
However on the other segments Nokia is doing very good.
The problem is not *now*, but where the market is going, failing on the future bets may resolve in a complete disaster.

And when people cry bloody murder when they see phones like the Nokia C-6 released,
Peoples cry becouse the C-6 release will not make Nokia rich, while investing the C-6 R&D on maemo/meego will make them happy

They try to correct nokia mistakes to have more effort on maemo/meego to have them dominate the world market just to be sure that it will supported/enhanced for ever

Niko
 
DeargDoom is offline DeargDoom
2010-05-04 , 00:13
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#137
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
Master's degree cult is propably due to finnish roots and Nokia USA must have gotten it from the homebase. Everybody and their dog has at least master's over here, even me. Bachelor degrees are mostly considered as drop-out degrees in Finland.
I think its like that in much of Europe. While I enjoyed my degree as an intellectual excercise, my masters is obviously useless in my day to day work. I wouldnt have gotten in the door without it though.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-05-04 , 00:13
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#138
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
What it comes down to is that Symbian are known, and proven, quantities. A huge majority of the company knows what they are and knows how to work with them. The same can't be said for Maemo.
I really felt like the odd man out in there. I ramped up quick on Maemo and was really fired up about the product-- and subsequently discovered I was essentially alone. Other Nokia employees had no clue what the internet tablets were. And they didn't care. There was always enough to worry about with 40-odd Symbian phones being launched around the planet.

Many asked me for prototypes when I was done with them and I know those things are either in a drawer collecting dust or wound up on eBay. Interest was fleeting at best.

EDIT: sorry, not prototypes but preproduction builds.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-05-04 at 00:28.
 

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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-05-04 , 00:20
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#139
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I really felt like the odd man out in there. I ramped up quick on Maemo and was really fired up about the product-- and subsequently discovered I was essentially alone. Other Nokia employees had no clue what the internet tablets were. And they didn't care. There was always enough to worry about with 40-odd Symbian phones being launched around the planet.

Many asked me for prototypes when I was done with them and I know those things are either in a drawer collecting dust or wound up on eBay. Interest was fleeting at best.
I wonder how they feel about it now with the iPhone, Android, WebOS, Microsoft Phone 7 Series, all out or rearing their heads.

I hope it's "aww damnit we should've jumped on the maemo bandwagon earlier"
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 

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2010-05-04 , 00:24
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#140
Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post
Sadly the whole "Must have this degree" thing is pretty much pervasive in any organization (government and business).
It depends. When things are booming experience is paramount and degrees can be unnecessary. My bachelor's degree was interrupted due to family obligations but until last year it was never a hinderance in getting a job that paid well above what my AAS should have warranted-- even at Nokia. I got credit for experience, certification, etc. But last year with the economic meltdown all that went out the window. I'm really lucky I fell into a job at all. Some of my former colleagues have not been as fortunate, oddly being told they're overqualified while lacking "the proper degree".

Nuts.
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