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fake is offline fake
2010-06-22 , 02:00
Posts: 277 | Thanked: 348 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Fargo, North Dakota, USA
#131
I just want to say that I quite appreciate the thankless work of moderators -- but that I also think, in the style of MetaFilter and other successfully moderated sites, a very few no-tolerance rules combined with a number of flexible "principles" and a whole lot of moderator transparency seems to breed good community practices.

Also, clearly defined outlets for things like self-linking or inter-community sales (like the Buy and Sell forum here) can defuse problems elsewhere.

And before anybody tags me -- my store isn't even open right now, I don't have a dog in this fight.
 
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Flandry is offline Flandry
2010-06-22 , 08:17
Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#132
Originally Posted by jjx View Post
There's an interesting thread right now, "Secret Exit To Release Games For N900".

Judging by the posts the thread has generated some sales for the company.

Is the person who started that thread in breach of the new rules?

Is the representative from the company who'se posting on there about the company's plans to release another game soon, giving the game's name for people to look up, is that person in breach of the new rules for their comments?

If I were asked to start a thread like that, and the new rules were in force, I'd be nervous at least that I'd get infraction points and/or moderation for it.

Yet it's a useful thread at the moment. Maybe not when there's hundreds of new commercial games being released every day :-) but for now, it seems welcome.

What's the policy?

Thanks
I stickied that thread and also had one stickied for the other commercial publisher of Maemo games that requested one of me until it was no longer appropriate to do so. It was my stated intent to allow an announcement thread per publisher in Games.

Obviously we need to have some specific anti-spam rule (using the unsolicited commercial mass communication meaning of "spam") but the current strictness of wording is not mine to eliminate. Perhaps Reggie will comment on his choice of wording and whether we can just pare it down. In the meantime, here's my proposed alteration:

No Business Advertising
Creating threads, posts, or signatures that serve solely to promote your business (whatever that may be, personal blogs excluded) is not allowed. Maemo-specific services, products and software are allowed one active thread per major product, which is subject to the same rules that apply to other threads. Referral links and viral marketing are not allowed.
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johnel is offline johnel
2010-06-22 , 08:23
Posts: 999 | Thanked: 1,117 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ earth?
#133
Originally Posted by Flandry View Post
Proposed addition:
  • No Abuse, Insults or Personal Attacks
    Abuse, insults and personal attacks directed at any member, person, or group are unacceptable. If you disagree with someone on some point, please do not resort to name calling or personal attacks; instead, argue the merits of their points. Please note that attacking people you perceive to be "trolls", "fanbois" or "flame baiters" still counts as a personal attack, and your posts will be removed as such.
    • Trolling example: "Just sell your N900 and get an iPhone 4!"
    • Flaming example: "Members with nothing to say should just shut up and leave this forum!"
    • Personal attack example: "You are an idiot."
    If you have trouble refraining from taking "bait", consider making use of the built-in ignore list functionality.
  • No Foul Language

Any objections?
Where does sarcasm fit in all this?
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CrashandDie is offline CrashandDie
2010-06-22 , 11:28
Posts: 336 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ France
#134
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
Where does sarcasm fit in all this?
Again, use common sense when making judgement calls -- the moderators will do the same. Sarcasm is definitely allowed, as long as the things you say aren't insulting nor rude.

Though, don't forget this is a written message board; sarcasm is very difficult to convey through such a "basic" medium. I for one should know, considering that more than one of my posts have been reported to moderators for being offensive, when really it was sarcastic (and I was even using the ":P" smiley, which indicate the tongue-in-cheekness of the sentence at hand).

Also, it is very difficult to imagine the shoes in which another user is standing. Sometimes they are really fed up with things, and misunderstood sarcasm may ignite a whole series of things no-one wanted and no-one even imagined. Be careful, and assume good faith.
 

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lcuk is offline lcuk
2010-06-22 , 11:56
Posts: 1,635 | Thanked: 1,816 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ Manchester, England
#135
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
Yes, I think we need to adjust that portion to clearly allow folks like you and craves1 and jolouis in, while keeping the credit card number, DVD ripper, and €3 iPhone vendors out. Software companies announcing their new Maemo 5 compatible wares in the Ovi Store should also be welcomed.

Care to suggest adjusted, or altogether new, text?
this is also the rule I have most problem with.

A cottage industry around our devices is welcomed and people like Fake and craves1 etc are doing each and every one of us a service, and thats not even mentioning the games and apps!

There are many more apps/trinkets that are possible with our devices.
Perhaps the rule should be based around community engagement - I certainly count Fake as an upstanding member of this community who has helped many.

At the same time, I cannot find set of words to describe keeping anyone on the right side of them.

Perhaps it could be the "signup/spam/spam/spam" cycle could be identified anyway with the other rules and we could just remove the specific rule about business advertising?
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YoDude is offline YoDude
2010-06-22 , 12:03
Posts: 2,869 | Thanked: 1,784 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Po' Bo'. PA
#136
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
There isn't a clear distinction drawn in your discussion of this issue, though. If tomorrow Valve posted here saying they are bringing Steam to the n900, the rules frown on this.

Perhaps a forum should be made explicitly for users to post Maemo-Specific commercial announcements.

Then that particular rule can have "outside of explicitly marked areas" added to the end.



There were several reasons listed on other pages. Any time an individual wants to retain his personal identity separate from another identity, such as a personally run company or community, there is a perfectly valid reason for that person to have two accounts.

Good point about the double voting though. Perhaps a non-voting account type should be made.
The rules don't frown on anything. The person who applies them may.

In a following post Flandry restates this guideline as " Creating threads, posts, or signatures that serve solely to promote your business"

The words solely to promote are key here.
Generally if Valve were to do as you said, a member will find it and make the announcement. If someone like Valve joined solely to make this announcement and will contribute nothing more then your argument has merit if in fact we as a community would not know this unless they did.

But we do not live in a monetary.

Going a step further and using your example of:
Originally Posted by You...
Any time an individual wants to retain his personal identity separate from another identity, such as a personally run company or community, there is a perfectly valid reason for that person to have two accounts...
In addition to making that announcement, Valve could create a new account in order to drive eyeballs to his commercial site every time he sees a member developed "Game" Announcement thread or any post that mentions a game. Rather than provide useful feedback he instead posts under this "personal identity" with the dubious claim that:
"I'm just a regular guy who is supporting a fellow member and found the games on Steam are much better", does not provide a reason or examples to support this claim, and then provides a link to Steam followed by his signature which reads:
"OMFG STEAM ROXORZ TEH BIG111!" in big red blinking letters.



("Steam" only used as a common place holder in my example...)
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Last edited by YoDude; 2010-06-22 at 12:30.
 
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Nathraiben is offline Nathraiben
2010-06-22 , 12:27
Posts: 267 | Thanked: 408 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Austria
#137
Originally Posted by YoDude View Post
In addition to making that announcement, Valve could create a new account in order to drive eyeballs to his commercial site every time he sees a thread or post that asks a question or requires an answer. Rather than point to a maemo.org WiKi or another talk.maemo org post that answers the question, he posts under this "personal identity" with the dubious claim that:
"I'm just a regular guy who is supporting a fellow member and found the Steam usually has the answers you are looking for in their new N900 dealio", and then provides a link followed by his signature which reads:
"OMFG STEAM ROXORZ TEH BIG111!" in big red blinking letters.

One way to address both this and the multiple-vote rule could be to "link" accounts. That is, upon registration (and later in the profile) one enters username and password of one's main account to tell the system "Look, I'm the same person".

This link would NOT be visible to regular users, but both the system (when it comes to voting) and the moderators (in order to check whether those multiple accounts are abused) can see it. For moderators, underneath a linked account all other accounts sharing this link could be shown - so when someone posts twice in a thread, it would be quite obvious.

And (staying with the Valve example), it would be rather obvious when someone writes STEAM FOREVVA! and their Username displays "AverageJoe, linked to: Valve"...

Of course there still would have to be a system to find people who have multiple accounts that are not linked (which would be breaking a rule then - though here I would also rather go with the friendly reminder first, for those who already own multiple accounts and didn't know about the new rules). But without a linked accounts system this would still remain.

Never modded vBulletin, but since it's a big name in forum software I guess it has a decent plugin system, so it should be fairly easy to implement a system like that.
 
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daperl is offline daperl
2010-06-22 , 13:36
Posts: 2,427 | Thanked: 2,986 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#138
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
This isn't Anarchists Anonymous.
I couldn't disagree more. That's exactly what this is, and that's a good thing. Ideas flow more freely in this type of environment. What this isn't is a public toilet for anyone to leave what ever infantile excrement enters their mind. But for the a*sholes sphincters that think it is a dumping ground, we have these wonderful, selfless janitors to keep the place clean.

So, a big thank you to all the moderators. Keep up the great work. This place would be post-apocalyptic without you.
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Last edited by daperl; 2010-06-22 at 18:29.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-22 , 16:35
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#139
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
I couldn't disagree more. That's exactly what this is, and that's a good thing. Ideas flow more freely in this type of environment. What this isn't is a public toilet for anyone to leave what ever infantile excrement enters their mind. But for the a*sholes that think it is a dumping ground, we have these wonderful, selfless janitors to keep the place clean.

So, a big thank you to all the moderators. Keep up the great work. This place would be post-apocalyptic without you.
Free-flowing doesn't necessarily mean anarchy, daperl. A domain of anarchy wouldn't have any janitors keeping it clean. That's anathema to anarchy. Post-apocalyptic on the other hand IS anarchy.

So I really don't understand your disagreement, and am taken by surprise that Reggie agreed with it. That leads me to suspect I may not have a clue how to moderate here at all. : /
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Nathraiben is offline Nathraiben
2010-06-22 , 16:50
Posts: 267 | Thanked: 408 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Austria
#140
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
A domain of anarchy wouldn't have any janitors keeping it clean.
And that's why anarchists are not proclaiming anarchy, but anarchism...

And the thing almost all paths of anarchism have in common is the belief that without fixed rules common sense will take over to regulate things. Much like the forums have been working until now.

"Janitors" are actually quite okay in a system of anarchism, as long as, instead of "ruling" or "playing police" they are just getting rid of those who are trying to break the system.

(Sadly, like with most instances of anarchism, the constant influx of people who are trying to abuse the lack of rules because "common sense" doesn't mean anything to them is slowly killing this system now.)
 

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