Mr 'fightback starts now' Anssi should be reading this thread, I hope he is taking note.

This is gonna sound rather bad, but this isn't where the "fight back" starts in my opinion.

We're enthusiasts, some of us are fans, some of us are dedicated. But what the TMO group represents is a group of highly intelligent folks that can understand the processor type, RAM amount, OS type and licensing model for that open source OS and actually understand it. Nokia doesn't need to truly win us over; they have to produce a product that will do what we've come to expect from our internet tablets/smartphones.

Who really needs convincing are the sheep, the iPhone users, the not too savvy folks that only go by "ooh, new shiny" and buy that way without regards to what the product may/may not do and have never looked at a line of code, have no clue what a terminal is and ultimately will never tinker with a phone other than adding a new case to their phone.

With that said, Nokia needs to get into public's view via proper marketing. Virals... Nokia you just don't get them, so never try it again. If it happens by mistake, chalk it up to being a fluke, but don't try to do it. Can't capture lightning in a bottle.

Nokia needs to create a product that the public will know, understand and adopt. I had a 80 year grandmother today tell me why she used an Android phone. She pushed up images to Facebook to share with her grandchildren - and did so without any help. She then saw that I had an iPhone and said that was her second choice. Ease of use is something that has to be told to folks... and it has to be real.

Imagine where Nokia MeeGo becomes an option to somebody like that. That's where Nokia needs to fight back. And do so in North America and in other countries.

Just talked to a friend in Guangzhou and she said that the Android phones, as well as iPhone were considered more elite, some RMB 8000 or so for those phones. The Nokia phones were the next step down, but were considered for "normal" folks. They're much less pricier, still carry some status though. But have dropped in status in the last few years.

The "fight back" needs to happen with people not like us here at TMO. But it needs to start very damn soon or else more slipping in terms of mindshare.

As it happens I'm in the market for a new mid-range phone for a family member...

Traditionally Nokia phones have been generally well-built (sometimes too much so, to the extent of being heavy and bulky ) but prior to the smartphone and now touchphone rage (Apps! 3rd party apps!) there were basically no feature upgrades and even installing stability and security (?) fixes was clunky (esp. for us non-Microsoft dependants).

The "no Linux desktop support" policy may well apply to most other manufacturers as well, although Nokia is one to have since bet the whole company on Linux and open-source (Qt etc.).

That said, what I'm after is a reasonably slim and light mid-range and mid-priced (US$ 200-300; without contract of course) 'classic smart' or touch handset with tri/quadband, WIFI (for VOIP), half-decent camera, 3.5mm jack, USB-charging...

Bonus features (subzero @ hell issues): dual-SIM (e.g. separate one for data); dual SD-slots (without removing battery! ; spring-loaded? ; e.g. one for apps and another for data), front-facing camera for videocalls (over WIFI/internet please)... these features may be more practical for my own $300-400 upgrade later on.

Despite abandoning us Maemo/internet tablet customers I still wouldn't mind buying Nokia products as I believe them to be a decent, Linux/OSS-supporting and environmentally conscious company (relative to competition) and Finland too is a neutral and decent little country.

Even the fanbois are giving up. Check out http://www.symbian-guru.com and read his last post.

Actually I think Nokia is better than others. They still following money like any other company but they try to care about customer in a way that makes me feel more respect. I tried other more advertised brands but behind the bright there was just a slavery, they seems to care, it seems to work, but don't you dare to desire something else!

It's effectively a new OS. Linux is just the kernel - it's all the other stuff that makes it different. So what if the UI is implemented in GTK or QT that is not the issue.
The issues are maemo has a stable UI, is already production quality, already has a library of apps, already has an SDK and is well understood.

What Nokia should have done is evolved maemo over time and kept backwards compatibility instead Nokia have taken things in yet another new direction.

It's not good enough to expect developers/software companies to re-compile and tweak their apps for MeeGo it's just an added expense and an inefficient use of time.

They could have got aways with this a few years ago but with today's competition (e.g. iPhone, Android) Nokia cannot afford to do this.

What Nokia needed was a stable OS that could evolve over time and gain the support of software companies which in turn would potentially lead to more sales of future high-end handsets.

Apple and Google understand this and Microsoft used to. Handset manufacturers do not understand this (e.g. android "fragmentation").

If Nokia want me to buy apps and devices they should show some stability first.

Why should I buy an app when a couple years down the line I have to buy it again because Nokia have launched yet another mobile OS or platform?

Sometimes I wonder why Nokia gets this reputation and whether it's actually 'deserved'?

Do they actually keep 'stoic' because that's in their tenets (which isn't good marketing move, although it can seem admirable); or because they're too shackled by their bureaucracy to try out these new patterns?

I mean, it's obvious that they're not impervious to idiocy, judging by their production of several nokia phones based on popular t-shirt designs and the N900 cherrybomb.

2.1 is end of the line. No FroYo, no dalvik speedup, no Flash 10 (remember, the Hero was also touted as a 'full flash' phone). They literally did not get a year's worth of updates, even though it is sold on a two year contract. Their forums are mirrors of this one, with all the "I'll never buy a HTC again" rant threads. If we accept 2.1 as valid upgrades, then PR1.2 is a sign of proper support just as well (and for the record, PR1.2 did contain an Ovi Maps update, but the 'real' thing will be the Qt based next version which will be available in the Harmattan timeframe).

I'm probably gonna switch to HTC or something, im just getting bored of Nokia, after having owned a 3310, 6230, N95, N96, N97 and now the N900, i dunno...just want something new, a true flagship, the way the N95 was!

Till this day i still compare new phones to my N95, see whether they truely blew me over like the N95 did!!

if you want to pay softwares you would but iphone, more good cheap software, if you wanna free/gnu software, you would buy android.
N900 was really expensive, so I wont sell or drop,but probably I will buy android next time, 2years later with this developing, android will be awsome.