Originally Posted by woody14619

Can you show me even a single example of where governance of a system was given to a group of people for all time, and not rescinded?

That's all fine and good. The problem is MeeGo is not GPL, at least not the parts we're talking about. The drivers and bobbles we're talking about here are under NDA, and are NOT under GPL nor any other open license. That's what this whole discussion is about! Were the drivers and misc bits open-source and GPL, I'd be all behind this in a second. It's not, and probably never will be.

Yes and no... I was comparing it to the model as it exists now. Tell me, do you think the governance council here (freshly elected) has any voice with Nokia now? Many past council members have said they barely had a voice when it was the big thing. I'd be surprised if they can get someone at Nokia to answer an email for them now...

How so? If it's open source, completely open, one can make a complete copy of it and retain it for their own use. The original presenter can in fact go away, or shut down the service/site promoting it. But if others have valid complete copies, how then can it be stopped?

we're talking about governance means we're talking about a closed resource, virtual or tangible, that has limited availability.

MeeGo has several closed bits still, which is what we're talking about here. Nobody is talking about "governance" of Mozilla on MeeGo. It's a moot point, as it's completely open. The governance is around how the closed parts are managed, and the general structure of the system as a whole. Both of which could be pulled back in at will by the collective corporations that hold the key bits to make it work on their devices.

Originally Posted by Frappacino

At the end of the day Maemo works at an end user level NOW while Meego MAY (and most likely never) work at an end user level.

Originally Posted by attila77

No, the pullback that kills open projects in company exits is the void created by the size of contribution/maintenance those companies make.

Originally Posted by Texrat

Can you explain how you arrive at that odd "most likely never" conclusion?

Originally Posted by tswindell

You raise fair points, MeeGo up until 2 1/2 months ago on the N900 was at the whim of contributors who were mostly scratching itches and getting odd bits & bogs working. When Nokia got involved and created the N900 Community Edition project (previously Developer Edition), we suddenly got a huge amount of momentum, because for the first time we actually had clear goals and targets. And they were simple and achievable. So recently MeeGo for the N900 has become a much more active and viable option.

I guess there's a misconception of what we're doing here. We've always said MeeGo on the N900 will never be ready for "end users" it's not yet and probably never will be a goal for the project. And that is probably fundamentally the issue when posting things about MeeGo on this forum.

Originally Posted by tswindell

I would love MeeGo on the N900, whether through Cordia, or MeeGo N900 Community Edition, to be end-user acceptable, and even though I don't think this is our primary goal for the project, it is certainly a possibility. I'm pretty sure by the end of this year MeeGo on the N900 will be something very functional and useful for most N900 users. That is, if we keep going in the direction at the pace we're going at.

Originally Posted by lemmyslender

Perhaps from this very thread?

Both those quotes are kind of contradictory. But the bolded parts both suggest that "end user ready" is not a goal of the project. Which is why I feel "Community Edition" is a bit mis-leading (unless you read "community" to mean developers/power users and not end users, and lets face it, there are more end users here than ever before).

And there's the biggest problem with posting information here. If it is not meant to be end user ready, and you post about MeeGo CE in a community that contains members it's not targeted at, there is bound to be confusion.

Texrat - Apparently you believe "most likely never" to be incorrect. Which would imply you believe it will be "end user ready"? If so, what has led you to that conclusion?

Originally Posted by lemmyslender

And there's the biggest problem with posting information here. If it is not meant to be end user ready, and you post about MeeGo CE in a community that contains members it's not targeted at, there is bound to be confusion.

Originally Posted by Texrat

With all due respects to my friend Tom, I don't believe he's speaking for MeeGo project management there.

Of course end-user readiness is a goal of MeeGo, at least tablet, handset, netbook etc builds. And IMO 1.2 is very, very close. So I'm still confused by contrary claims and wonder why I'm being challenged to defend a no-brainer sort of conclusion...

If MeeGo is never intended to be end-user ready, then what is Intel spending a small fortune on? let's just stop now... right?

Originally Posted by lemmyslender

Sorry, I was reading the quote with respect to the topic at hand (MeeGo CE on the N900), as opposed to MeeGo in general. I'll happily agree that a goal of MeeGo in general is to be end-user ready.

*edit* I don't believe Tom is speaking for MeeGo either, however it does seem he wants to speak for MeeGo CE on the N900, which is what I thought this thread was about.